vertiges
Well-known member
I've read all kind of things about the subject... lower noise, lower microphonics...
Is it a marketing hype or is this REAL ? :roll:
eD
Is it a marketing hype or is this REAL ? :roll:
eD
Cryo treated tubes ? Myth or reality ?
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VacuumVoodoo
Well-known member
The freezing is real, the claimed effects are, well, only claimed.
vertiges
Well-known member
so, you mean it's not worth paying the double of the price...?
thanks,
eD
thanks,
eD
pucho812
Well-known member
I've never used them myself. too much $$. I am positive that the freezing does something. I would guess it changes the molecular structure to some degree. I doubt it makes a difference in terms of sonic but then again I never tested them. I would guess the same people who buy frozen tubes are the same people who will by
http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina64.htm
http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina64.htm
mrphotodude
Well-known member
there have been a few threads about that on the vintageamps forum.....
nobody has heard much difference when they dared to try.
http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?t=40852&highlight=cryo
nobody has heard much difference when they dared to try.
http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?t=40852&highlight=cryo
vertiges
Well-known member
Well, thank you for all those answers !!! :grin:
Analag, you recall me that once I put a broken hard drive in a freezer because I read somewhere that the cold could temporarily fix a mechanical problems with the heads... (didn't work...) :wink:
So the conclusion is :
Keith doesn't believe in bypass and nobody believes in the cryotubes !
Analag, you recall me that once I put a broken hard drive in a freezer because I read somewhere that the cold could temporarily fix a mechanical problems with the heads... (didn't work...) :wink:
Keith doesn't believe in bypass and nobody believes in the cryotubes !
Ptownkid
Well-known member
Actually, the cryotubes do sound better, but only when the freezing is performed by bigfoot.
freezing HD and floppys in a plastic bag is not for mechanical problems it is for weak signals from the magnetic media. It is an old trick that seems to work with floppys. I have froze floppys that I could not read parts from on different drives and sometimes recovered stuff. Use a drying pack and use a plastic bag to keep moisture from forming on the floopy
vertiges
Well-known member
have you got his number ? :wink:
croz2803
Member
how about snow yeti's? i've heard they use really good snow for freezing stuff like people and chicken. do you think its a family secret between bigfoot and the yetis?
Ptownkid
Well-known member
It's definitely a bigfoot/yeti/abominable snowman conspiracy.
I own one cryo valve. I came with a mic I bought as a replacement. Supposedly you can reduce noise with cryo treatment. By they way, I believe they drop them to 0 degrees Kelvin. It's not like putting them in the freezer.
vertiges
Well-known member
[quote author="rodabod"]I own one cryo valve. I came with a mic I bought as a replacement. Supposedly you can reduce noise with cryo treatment. By they way, I believe they drop them to 0 degrees Kelvin. It's not like putting them in the freezer.[/quote]
Yes at -300F for 48 hours... (for aligning the molecules...)
Analag was kidding or he has a "liquid hydrogen freezer" :green:
The explanation (or one of them) from : this website
"Metals respond very well to deep cryogenic process. The reasons are as follows. During the cooling or solidification phase of the manufacturing process, molecules are trapped in a haphazard pattern. This is down to stress caused in the bending and welding of the anode plate material.. This random placement causes obstacles for electrons and when encountered this interference can cause noise, slow down electron flow and sound deteriation affecting the quality of the sound of the vacuum tube. At very cold temperatures (below -312°F), the molecules will align in a more uniform, compact structure through the removal of kinetic energy. When the material is returned to ambient temperature, this new uniform, compact pattern is maintained, Thus changing the structure of the nickel permanently. This process makes a permanent change and the benefits do not deteriorate over time or upon return to operating temperature, it changes the whole way the vacuum tube performs.
The biggest benefits I have found has been a dramatic improvement in dymanic range. Bass response has been clearer with reduction in microphonics. The really most starling fact as been how the valve operates under saturated and overdriven conditions. This has made some of the more basic Fender amps sound fuller and warmer."
eD
Yes at -300F for 48 hours... (for aligning the molecules...)
Analag was kidding or he has a "liquid hydrogen freezer" :green:
The explanation (or one of them) from : this website
"Metals respond very well to deep cryogenic process. The reasons are as follows. During the cooling or solidification phase of the manufacturing process, molecules are trapped in a haphazard pattern. This is down to stress caused in the bending and welding of the anode plate material.. This random placement causes obstacles for electrons and when encountered this interference can cause noise, slow down electron flow and sound deteriation affecting the quality of the sound of the vacuum tube. At very cold temperatures (below -312°F), the molecules will align in a more uniform, compact structure through the removal of kinetic energy. When the material is returned to ambient temperature, this new uniform, compact pattern is maintained, Thus changing the structure of the nickel permanently. This process makes a permanent change and the benefits do not deteriorate over time or upon return to operating temperature, it changes the whole way the vacuum tube performs.
The biggest benefits I have found has been a dramatic improvement in dymanic range. Bass response has been clearer with reduction in microphonics. The really most starling fact as been how the valve operates under saturated and overdriven conditions. This has made some of the more basic Fender amps sound fuller and warmer."
eD
[quote author="rodabod"]By they way, I believe they drop them to 0 degrees Kelvin. It's not like putting them in the freezer.[/quote]
:razz:
Well, maybe a little above -273.15 oC.
4K (liquid Helium) is the lowest 'convenient' temperature without very expensive gear.
And I mean convenient in the looser sense of the word!
:razz:
Well, maybe a little above -273.15 oC.
4K (liquid Helium) is the lowest 'convenient' temperature without very expensive gear.
And I mean convenient in the looser sense of the word!
I would love to see some proper research in this. Funnily enough, I've been teaching solid state chemistry and reaction kinetics all week for the open university!
Thermodynamically, a phase change at lower temperature may be favoured. That doesn't mean it will happen.
Although in principle it could / should happen, but the kinetics of rearrangement will become slower at lower temperature. [Arrhenius equation states that the the rate of a chemical (or physical) change is proportional to minus the exponential of the energy barrier divided by the absolute temperature]
rate = A.e^(-E/RT).
At very low temperatures the structure may be 'frozen' and the atoms have insufficient energy to rearrange themselves.
Impurities / alloys will play a big part too.
In other words - it's a nice idea but it's more complicated than just 'cold is better'.
:shock:
[quote author="zebra50"]
Well, maybe a little above -273.15 oC.
4K (liquid Helium) is the lowest 'convenient' temperature without very expensive gear.
[/quote]
Interesting. I thought 0K was manageable with Helium. Ok, we'll send the valves into space instead.
The comments over improvemnt in sound seem like bollocks to me. Especially in guitar amps.
Well, maybe a little above -273.15 oC.
4K (liquid Helium) is the lowest 'convenient' temperature without very expensive gear.
[/quote]
Interesting. I thought 0K was manageable with Helium. Ok, we'll send the valves into space instead.
The comments over improvemnt in sound seem like bollocks to me. Especially in guitar amps.
bcarso
Well-known member
Space isn't that cold---due to the primordial cosmic microwave background radiation.
We've gotten much colder in terrestrial labs---I don't know what the current record is. But few millidegree temps are fairly easy with dilution refrigerators---see the wiki on that latter.
We've gotten much colder in terrestrial labs---I don't know what the current record is. But few millidegree temps are fairly easy with dilution refrigerators---see the wiki on that latter.
I think it is, but you need some very special heat pumps, and the volumes tend to be very small - you'd need a big chamber for even a few tubes.
Obviously the closer we get to absolute zero the harder it gets.
Nice thing about liquid helium is that you can get it delivered - at it's boiling point of course.
There is currently a global helium shortage, and prices are high! Although it's a gas, most of it is mined, funnily enough. It is produced by radioactive processes in rocks, on a geological timescale.
Yup, let's send them into space. Recovered tubes from soviet space missions should be the dogs nads! :thumb:
Obviously the closer we get to absolute zero the harder it gets.
Nice thing about liquid helium is that you can get it delivered - at it's boiling point of course.
There is currently a global helium shortage, and prices are high! Although it's a gas, most of it is mined, funnily enough. It is produced by radioactive processes in rocks, on a geological timescale.
Yup, let's send them into space. Recovered tubes from soviet space missions should be the dogs nads! :thumb:
vertiges
Well-known member
[quote author="zebra50"]
Yup, let's send them into space. Recovered tubes from soviet space missions should be the dogs nads! :thumb:[/quote]
:grin:
I'm surprise nobody has thought about that yet... And you could mention when advertising your special "cryo-space tubes" that the cosmic radiations will add more dynamic and more clarity to the sound ! :green:
eD
Yup, let's send them into space. Recovered tubes from soviet space missions should be the dogs nads! :thumb:[/quote]
:grin:
I'm surprise nobody has thought about that yet... And you could mention when advertising your special "cryo-space tubes" that the cosmic radiations will add more dynamic and more clarity to the sound ! :green:
eD
