micaddict
Well-known member
A little over 41Hz, actually.
Yeah, nitpicking perhaps.
Anyway, nice thread. Carry on.
Dale M7 against Thiersch M7
- Thread starter bernbrue
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
A little over 41Hz, actually.
Yeah, nitpicking perhaps.
Anyway, nice thread. Carry on.
david-p
Well-known member
micaddict said:
A little over 41Hz, actually.
Thanks! You are correct, and I shoulld not have made that slip: it is actually the pitch of the lowest string of a bass with FIVE strings, harly ever written for, and below the range of even large pipe organs that have no 32ft pipes!
David
david-p
Well-known member
Does anybody know whether RMAA works with Windows 7? I downloaded it yesterday and installed it. It refuses to run, and during the installation process I received the message:bernbrue said:
"Error opening the file for writing: C:\Program Files (x86)\RightMark\RMAA6\Rmaa6.exe" , which is strange because that was not where theinstaller was. I put it there and still get the message.
If I elect to ignore this warning, I get messages:
"Error opening the file for writing: C:\Program Files (x86)\RightMark\RMAA6\Tests.dll"
and
"Error opening the file for writing: C:\Program Files (x86)\RightMark\RMAA6\language\English.lng"
"Error opening the file for writing: C:\Program Files (x86)\RightMark\RMAA6\language\Russian.lng"
The process then apparently completes and if I ask it to run RMAA, it goes through a loop.
I should be grateful for any help...
David
bernbrue
Well-known member
Hi,
I updated the 12th post with a frequency plot of the tested microphones.
regards
Bernd
I updated the 12th post with a frequency plot of the tested microphones.
regards
Bernd
Kingston
Well-known member
david-p said:
You need to install it as an administrator. Right click menu to select. Works fine on windows 7 64bit even.
bernbrue said:
Hi Bernd,
how did you measure the microphones? Is the setup as in the picture with all four mics?
There are some interesting similarities/dissimilarities there.
Thanks,
Anders
david-p
Well-known member
Kingston said:
Wierd! I am THE administrator and always logged in as such. The file installs on XP.
Kingston
Well-known member
david-p said:
You can be the administrator and still have UAC holding your hand, the default setting. It fails with older software like RMAA. Prevents correct installation and doesn't bother to tell you. I just had a massive amount of bother with Cubase and some plugins with similar issues.
david-p
Well-known member
How do I get around that one?Kingston said:
bernbrue
Well-known member
Sredna said:
Hi,
yes, the mics were tested as seén in the picture. It´s very important not to monitor the mics signal (feedback!!!). Indeed, these are quite interesting curves.
regards
Bernd
> acceptance limits would appear to be even more loose than 3dB
+/-2db above ~~62Hz. Snip attached.
> accept any tested frequency under 100Hz ... other than an anechoic or equivalent environment/conditions.
And find the rated low-limit of the "anechoic" room. It takes a LOT of (deep) absorption to make bass go away. Anything under 1/8 wavelength is like nothing. That's 17 inches at 100Hz, a yard deep for 50Hz. Only very large chambers can vanish bass waves.
> 30Hz is the fundamental frequency of the lowest note (E) of the string bass and is not going to show up very often, except in recordings of large pipe organs.
Standard double bass goes to E1, 41Hz. 5-string goes to B0 at 31Hz.
Standard size double bass radiates almost no power below 50-60Hz.
Few pipe organs run below 32Hz. I did a very nice recent instrument in a quite large old stone church. (I used omni condensers to catch it as verbatim as possible.) My editor showed clear 32Hz spikes (above truck rumble down to 20Hz). I realized that NO loudspeaker I could use was going to play 32Hz, and that many good mastering rooms are only flat to 50Hz. Down there the room plays as much a part as the speaker. Indeed I hear the lowest tones best in my car... if the windows are rolled-up tight, using my trunk as my "box", simple 6X9s against the cabin volume gave a slower roll-off than large speakers in rooms. (And no standing waves below 100Hz.)
Bernd's technique is not absolute-accurate, but should be quite accurate relative to two similar mikes. Assuming the SAME placement of speaker and mikes. I don't think he's on the edge of a standing-wave because the 3db difference runs 20Hz-40Hz and a node would be narrower. I can think of ways it would be technically different, no way it would be *musically* different. There isn't much below 50Hz in most music, and we all tweak the lowest octave in mixing and mastering.
+/-2db above ~~62Hz. Snip attached.
> accept any tested frequency under 100Hz ... other than an anechoic or equivalent environment/conditions.
And find the rated low-limit of the "anechoic" room. It takes a LOT of (deep) absorption to make bass go away. Anything under 1/8 wavelength is like nothing. That's 17 inches at 100Hz, a yard deep for 50Hz. Only very large chambers can vanish bass waves.
> 30Hz is the fundamental frequency of the lowest note (E) of the string bass and is not going to show up very often, except in recordings of large pipe organs.
Standard double bass goes to E1, 41Hz. 5-string goes to B0 at 31Hz.
Standard size double bass radiates almost no power below 50-60Hz.
Few pipe organs run below 32Hz. I did a very nice recent instrument in a quite large old stone church. (I used omni condensers to catch it as verbatim as possible.) My editor showed clear 32Hz spikes (above truck rumble down to 20Hz). I realized that NO loudspeaker I could use was going to play 32Hz, and that many good mastering rooms are only flat to 50Hz. Down there the room plays as much a part as the speaker. Indeed I hear the lowest tones best in my car... if the windows are rolled-up tight, using my trunk as my "box", simple 6X9s against the cabin volume gave a slower roll-off than large speakers in rooms. (And no standing waves below 100Hz.)
Bernd's technique is not absolute-accurate, but should be quite accurate relative to two similar mikes. Assuming the SAME placement of speaker and mikes. I don't think he's on the edge of a standing-wave because the 3db difference runs 20Hz-40Hz and a node would be narrower. I can think of ways it would be technically different, no way it would be *musically* different. There isn't much below 50Hz in most music, and we all tweak the lowest octave in mixing and mastering.
Attachments
Kingston
Well-known member
david-p said:
I said the first time, "You need to install it as an administrator. Right click menu to select". It forces administrator mode. Doesn't matter if you already are logged in as admin, you still have to do it. If you truly want to get around it you can disable UAC. I do not recommend it.
Thus endeth thread intrusion. Carry on.
bernbrue
Well-known member
PRR said:
Well, now my avatar comes in. I played quite a lot of different, historical pipe organs. The most exciting one was the organ in Lüneburg, where Bach is supposed to having composed his famous Toccata. The organ is from 1548 and the later installed pedal towers have got a 32ft trombone in there (they are behind the prospect pipes). I played the lowest note on the pedal and thought there was someone with a jackhammer outside of the church. Really impressive.
Sorry, that was off topic. I recommend measuring stereo microphones for matched capsules. I did some tests with a Telefunken/Schoeps CMTS 501 and a Beyer MCE82. Even after 40 years the Schoeps capsules are really extremely close in frequency response.
It´s this beautifull instrument:
> the organ in Lüneburg
Yeah, my ex-boss was there; and I transferred an LP of it (not him) to CD for him.
It's not the same on record.
I liked this 2001 instrument. The church is old (in US terms): "In 1776, the third public reading of the Declaration of Independence was made from the foot of the church tower.", "the church’s first pipe organ was purchased in 1788 for $100" (!!)
If I understand specs, it does go to 32Hz:
Bourdon 16'
Subbaß 16'
Posaune 16'
One of the students played Bach's Fantasy and Fugue in C minor which starts with a brick on the lowest pedal-- 30 seconds of steady 32Hz with finger-stuff over it.
This instrument is very compact. I guess some clients want pipes all spread out to look impressive (I knew a 1950s Modern organ spread-out like the grill of a 1950s Oldsmobile), others want to leave room for a choir without re-building a 250+ year old loft.
Yeah, my ex-boss was there; and I transferred an LP of it (not him) to CD for him.
It's not the same on record.
I liked this 2001 instrument. The church is old (in US terms): "In 1776, the third public reading of the Declaration of Independence was made from the foot of the church tower.", "the church’s first pipe organ was purchased in 1788 for $100" (!!)
If I understand specs, it does go to 32Hz:
Bourdon 16'
Subbaß 16'
Posaune 16'
One of the students played Bach's Fantasy and Fugue in C minor which starts with a brick on the lowest pedal-- 30 seconds of steady 32Hz with finger-stuff over it.
This instrument is very compact. I guess some clients want pipes all spread out to look impressive (I knew a 1950s Modern organ spread-out like the grill of a 1950s Oldsmobile), others want to leave room for a choir without re-building a 250+ year old loft.
bernbrue, is there any way you could outline and detail your T-Bone SCT 700 modifications? I would love to make one like this, that is so similar to an M49! I love rebuilding tube mics, and I love using nice capsules in them. An M7 mic is missing from my arsenal.
bockaudio
Well-known member
Vertical scale is what?
Also, don't measure mics with crossed over multi-speakers. Use one point source.
Also, don't measure mics with crossed over multi-speakers. Use one point source.
bernbrue
Well-known member
monkeyxx said:
Hi,
it´s basicly the Apex 460 mod. Remove cathode follower, replace 12AX7 with 6072, lower H+ to 120V, change the output transformer (here unknown RFT 5:1) and the capsule (here Thiersch M7). Most depends on the capsule and output transformer.
regards
Bernd
bernbrue
Well-known member
monkeyxx said:
Oh yes, it´s one of my favourite mics. I´ve got quite a lot of high end mics but somehow the modded T-Bone is very often first choice. I leave it permantly installed to be ready to use. The M49 is the one to take for (good) female singers. Very airy and huge!
regards
Bernd
