Death wish coffee

[Bowie]

Coffee guys; answer me this...
Coffee usually rots my stomach unless I eat something with it.  However, I've found that some are not as bad at this as others and I recently got hooked on Kicking Horse coffees, which don't seem to bother my stomach much at all.  What is it that causes stomach pain?  Is it the acidity?  Or, something else?

Seems too much like an ad.. Ad-AI is just targeting the site better.

But from coffee point of view, just how filtered is your coffee?

Perhaps not enough and filters matter.

Not sure what is meant by that sounding like an ad but regarding filtering, I don't.  I prefer French- press style.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Not sure what is meant by that sounding like an ad but regarding filtering, I don't.  I prefer French- press style.

French press is filtered, but perhaps leaks more sediment that most techniques, especially if you get impatient and force the plunger too fast.

The only un-filtered coffee I recall ever drinking was in the army while on KP** during NATO maneuvers in the German woods (Kisslvind forest?).  I recall the mess sergeant making a batch of coffee in a huge tin pan (like you might soak your feet in). First he poured in a full gallon can of coffee grounds, then covered it with boiling water (the original pour over). Then we stirred it with what looked like a small canoe paddle. The next step was to sprinkle some cold water on any grounds that were floating on top so they would sink to the bottom. The last step was to decant the clear coffee into one of those huge several gallon serving dispensers.  I recall trying to lift it up to a serving platform by myself (mistake it had two handles for a reason), and catching the spigot on my junk.. Hot coffee on your family jewels is another way coffee can wake you up in the morning.    IIRC that coffee didn't suck, despite me having to pick leaves out of it while it was brewing. it sure tasted better than the instant C-rat coffee we were getting, but those C-rats were Korean war surplus so already a decade or two old by 1970. 

JR

** the only thing worse than KP is KP in the field... You don't have to mop the dirt floors, but everything else is worse. No paper plates or picnic in the army.

 

[Bowie]

The presses I've owned let a lot more sediment, for sure, but maybe that's partly why I like it.  The slightly thicker texture, though I don't drink the last 1/2" of liquid as it's sludge.  I've never noticed a difference in stomach irritation whether I use filters or not.

Anyone else prefer to brew at moderate heat?  I just don't like the flavor as much if it's brewed at normal coffee percolator temps or, with boiling water poured over such as my wife does.  For my palate, pouring in water before it reaches a simmer results in a smoother, more flavorful cup.  Not sure the science behind it but it's just something I've picked up over the years.

 

[JohnRoberts]

The presses I've owned let a lot more sediment, for sure, but maybe that's partly why I like it.  The slightly thicker texture, though I don't drink the last 1/2" of liquid as it's sludge.  I've never noticed a difference in stomach irritation whether I use filters or not.

I prefer coffee that I don't have to chew... Allowing more sediment in the cup will actually continue to extract coffee flavors from that sediment in contact with the hot liquid in the cup. 

Anyone else prefer to brew at moderate heat?  I just don't like the flavor as much if it's brewed at normal coffee percolator temps or, with boiling water poured over such as my wife does.  For my palate, pouring in water before it reaches a simmer results in a smoother, more flavorful cup.  Not sure the science behind it but it's just something I've picked up over the years.

As I've mentioned before, optimal water temp for coffee brewing recommendation is less than boiling (around 190-200'F). Hotter water extracts faster/more, cooler water extracts slower/less.

So your preference for both lower temps and more sediment seems to somewhat balance each other out wrt brew strength. One variable that hasn't been discussed is how much coffee grounds are involved.  Final brew strength is the combination of how much ground coffee is used , water temp and  how long it is exposed to the grounds,  then lastly filtering of the final brew.

Using french press, unless you use a stop watch, extraction will vary from batch to batch. Lower water temp might mitigate over extraction and high sediment levels. You might experiment with using slightly less coffee grounds too. However if  you are happy with what you are doing why change it....?

Note: Some do cold water brewing (24 hrs or longer in refrigerator), and it does taste different to me (it's cold  ;D ). I expect some of the volatiles are less extracted by low water temperatures.

JR

 

[Bowie]

The presses I've owned let a lot more sediment, for sure, but maybe that's partly why I like it.  The slightly thicker texture, though I don't drink the last 1/2" of liquid as it's sludge.  I've never noticed a difference in stomach irritation whether I use filters or not.

I prefer coffee that I don't have to chew... Allowing more sediment in the cup will actually continue to extract coffee flavors from that sediment in contact with the hot liquid in the cup. 

Anyone else prefer to brew at moderate heat?  I just don't like the flavor as much if it's brewed at normal coffee percolator temps or, with boiling water poured over such as my wife does.  For my palate, pouring in water before it reaches a simmer results in a smoother, more flavorful cup.  Not sure the science behind it but it's just something I've picked up over the years.

As I've mentioned before, optimal water temp for coffee brewing recommendation is less than boiling (around 190-200'F). Hotter water extracts faster/more, cooler water extracts slower/less.

So your preference for both lower temps and more sediment seems to somewhat balance each other out wrt brew strength. One variable that hasn't been discussed is how much coffee grounds are involved.  Final brew strength is the combination of how much ground coffee is used , water temp and  how long it is exposed to the grounds,  then lastly filtering of the final brew.

Using french press, unless you use a stop watch, extraction will vary from batch to batch. Lower water temp might mitigate over extraction and high sediment levels. You might experiment with using slightly less coffee grounds too. However if  you are happy with what you are doing why change it....?

Note: Some do cold water brewing (24 hrs or longer in refrigerator), and it does taste different to me (it's cold  ;D ). I expect some of the volatiles are less extracted by low water temperatures.

JR

Interesting.  Thanks for the thoughts.  High temps (above 200*) seem to kill the flavors I like and introduce bitter, tannin-like flavors I don't care for  (or, perhaps those bitter flavors are masking the good ones).  I press after 5 to 10min and I do notice that if I let the cup sit for a few hours and re-heat, it does taste more bitter.  I always thought I might be imagining that but what you said about the sediment continuing to contribute makes complete sense now!

I love mine strong and I only drink about 3/4 cup a day so I suppose I use a high ratio of beans.  I've tried fewer beans but just don't enjoy it. 

I remember reading about cold-brew earlier in the thread and am eager to try it out (I just always forget to set it up!).

 

[JohnRoberts]

I cold brew by mixing ground coffee and water into a clean half gallon plastic bottle.  Shake it to mix, then sit in the refrigerator over night.  When I'm ready to drink, I pour into my pour-over filter to remove the grounds.

I only do cold brew decaf and only during summer months.

Enjoy...

JR

 

[benqbasic]

This really is the best forum.  ;D
You're making me want to start roasting John.

I can't imagine not roasting... Many got started using fluid bed, hot air roasters, like the old pop corn poppers, before everything went microwave. Some old school combine hot air poppers with variacs to vary the temperature.

The entry level hot air roasters are good value for dipping your toe in the water, but do not survive under regular use very long. I have been using a drum roaster (Hottop) actually a Korean product, but they have excellent availability of repair parts,,, over decades these things wear out.

Good luck, you could roast coffee in a frying pan (cowboy coffee) but it isn't easy and the smoke is a bit much for indoors..One of those popcorn poppers designed to use over a fire would work, over a fire outdoors.

JR

Sounds good, my wife is Korean so i might look into those.  Now i have to find a good supplier of beans who have reasonable shipping to New Zealand. 

 

[pucho812]

Anyone every try sun brewed coffee?  Can serve hot or on ice.  I have never tried it.  But looking into it as the sun is starting to shine more often out in these parts

 

[JohnRoberts]

Anyone every try sun brewed coffee?  Can serve hot or on ice.  I have never tried it.  But looking into it as the sun is starting to shine more often out in these parts

I've heard of sun brewed tea, but not coffee. Maybe for camping. I've made coffee under less than ideal conditions when power is out for prolonged duration (like hurricanes). Even bad coffee is better than no coffee (while it is always possible to make it unpalatable, like that one diner in NJ that burned it in the pot).

Knowing how much time and temp affects brewing I don't see much attraction for yard coffee. In the morning I am on hold until I get my first cup of Joe.

JR

 

[dmp]

I remember being told that people used to boil water with grounds and then crack and egg into the top to pull out the grounds. In the days before filters were cheap and easy. Never tried it.
I use a permanent filter at home (a fine screen) but don't like it as much as paper. I notice the fine grit in the coffee. And this is with a coarse grind.

 

[pucho812]

I am with you John. But from what I have read,  make as much or as little as one likes and then can store it for later, serve heated up or  cold for iced coffee. So I would think of it no different then brewing a cup in the morning so might do some experimenting and give a full report some time soon.

For some reading on the subject have a look at this, my only objection is adding flavoring, good coffee needs no flavoring.
http://thehackedkitchenblog.com/2015/07/07/sun-brewed-coffee/

 

[Andy Peters]

The presses I've owned let a lot more sediment, for sure, but maybe that's partly why I like it.  The slightly thicker texture, though I don't drink the last 1/2" of liquid as it's sludge.  I've never noticed a difference in stomach irritation whether I use filters or not.

Anyone else prefer to brew at moderate heat?  I just don't like the flavor as much if it's brewed at normal coffee percolator temps or, with boiling water poured over such as my wife does.  For my palate, pouring in water before it reaches a simmer results in a smoother, more flavorful cup.  Not sure the science behind it but it's just something I've picked up over the years.

I use a french press, and my electric kettle has a temperature set-point. I heat the water to 190F instead of letting it boil, and I think it does taste better.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I remember being told that people used to boil water with grounds and then crack and egg into the top to pull out the grounds. In the days before filters were cheap and easy. Never tried it.
I use a permanent filter at home (a fine screen) but don't like it as much as paper. I notice the fine grit in the coffee. And this is with a coarse grind.

I wouldn't expect eggs to be cheaper than filters... My mom's vacuum pot from 50+ years ago, that made excellent coffee, used a cloth filter that was reusable. 

We had chickens (mom was a farmer's daughter) so plenty of eggs, but used the eggs for better things (like selling them to people without chickens).

JR

PS; I use both metal and paper... in a two stage kluge. If I use just paper, the filter clogs and takes too long to brew (drain). The combination of metal and paper is as fast as the metal alone but clean like paper. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

I am with you John. But from what I have read,  make as much or as little as one likes and then can store it for later, serve heated up or  cold for iced coffee. So I would think of it no different then brewing a cup in the morning so might do some experimenting and give a full report some time soon.

Sitting the brewed coffee pot on a warming plate, like most offices and servers do, will kill the flavor in short time. (Temperature rises and oxidizes some oils in the coffee). 

While not a secret, coffee can be warmed up in a microwave oven in a matter of seconds and I never noticed any difference other than temperature. I used to be a member of a coffee forum/newsgroup and those people were manic... After a couple years I had to bail because I couldn't keep up, but I learned a bunch.

I have drunk left over day-old coffee at room temperature while I'm waiting for a fresh batch to brew. 

For some reading on the subject have a look at this, my only objection is adding flavoring, good coffee needs no flavoring.
http://thehackedkitchenblog.com/2015/07/07/sun-brewed-coffee/

real men drink their coffee black....  ;D  (While I am not opposed to a scoop of white chocolate ice cream in my cup of coffee for desert after a good restaurant meal).

JR

PS: My theory for added cream and sugar in coffee, and freezing cold beer, is so consumers can better ignore the bad flavor of cheap beverages while getting the psycho-active benefit (ethyl alcohol, caffeine, etc). Good coffee and good beer don't need to mask their flavors.

 

[miszt]

Side note, I would always check the coffee packages  if it wasn't my usual stuff to make sure there was no robusta
in there, some used give the blend percentage but I notice now many don't 100% Arabica anymore, some say 100% coffee
many don't say anything at all  [ whats in there ]

"100% Coffee Coloured Granules, with added Salt"

 

[miszt]

I remember being told that people used to boil water with grounds and then crack and egg into the top to pull out the grounds. In the days before filters were cheap and easy. Never tried it.
I use a permanent filter at home (a fine screen) but don't like it as much as paper. I notice the fine grit in the coffee. And this is with a coarse grind.

I wouldn't expect eggs to be cheaper than filters... My mom's vacuum pot from 50+ years ago, that made excellent coffee, used a cloth filter that was reusable. 

We had chickens (mom was a farmer's daughter) so plenty of eggs, but used the eggs for better things (like selling them to people without chickens).

JR

PS; I use both metal and paper... in a two stage kluge. If I use just paper, the filter clogs and takes too long to brew (drain). The combination of metal and paper is as fast as the metal alone but clean like paper.

that's the way to make Consommé aswell (or at least one of the ways) ...i'm intrigued by the idea, actually the only bit that I don't like is the idea of boiling the coffee first lol

 

[JohnRoberts]

that's the way to make Consommé aswell (or at least one of the ways) ...i'm intrigued by the idea, actually the only bit that I don't like is the idea of boiling the coffee first lol

Don't boil it after the coffee grounds are added... get the water boiling water first and then turn off the heat, only then  stir in the coffee grounds and let them steep.

"Life is too short for inferior beverages."

JR

 

[CJ]

want a time release coffee? - Congo Tsheya is your bean, tough to get, 24 ouncer good for a 12 hr buzz, no need for a refill, when i get a tough amp problem, then it's down to Cafe Vita for a large french press,
ever try the Japanese siphon?

The Brewery-i get it!

"The eastern mountains of the Democratic Republic of Congo are ideally suited for coffee cultivation.  Unfortunately the political instability and social unrest has kept this origin from meeting its full potential.  In the near past, farmers had to smuggle their coffee into Rwanda as there were no resources available in the Congo.  Fortunately, a few cooperatives have emerged in recent years, perhaps none more successful than SOPACDI (Solidarité Paysanne pour la Promotion des Actions Café ed Développement Intégral).

Among the achievements of SOPACDI are organic and fair trade certifications as well as the distinction of exporting the top national grade, Kivu 2.  All purchases from the cooperative include a premium paid to women members, many of whose husbands died during the many conflicts that have ravaged the country.  With this premium, they will reinvest in their communities through healthcare, education, and coffee quality.

With the recent completion of the Tsheya wet-mill, members now are able to deliver ripe cherry for central processing.  This reduces the amount of labor that would be required for home processing and also increases the quality and consistency.  A double fermentation followed by twelve hour soak and raised bed drying produces an exceptional coffee with a clean, nuanced profile. "

 

[miszt]

I've read a few instruction manuals for those siphons, but never actually tried one, what kind of coffee does it make? shorts or full cups? from the instructions it doesn't sound like shorts

...I've often looked at them for sale and thought maybe, but in the past I've also been very disappointed with coffee machines, and stick with my cheap Italian pot 99% of the time lol but the siphon at the very least looks very cool

Japanese tho? Coffee making is not something I associate with Japan, but a quick search of google reveals that Japan has done what Japan always does, and turned it into an art-form-come-meditation, intrigued now another one to try (but if anyone puts a marshmallow cat in my coffee i'll not be impressed)


I do love pretty much all coffee out of Africa, not sure I've tried anything from Congo tho, will definitely be trying that, nice to hear something positive from the region for a change; lets hope the industry stays as a community project and avoids the corruption of western industry and Congo politics & militias

 

[JohnRoberts]

I've read a few instruction manuals for those siphons, but never actually tried one, what kind of coffee does it make? shorts or full cups? from the instructions it doesn't sound like shorts

That looks like a variant on classic vacuum pot. (OK per google search they're the same thing).

You start by filling the bottom with water, and put the coffee grounds in the top. There is an air tight seal between the bottom and top, so steam released from boiling the bottom water pumps it up into the top chamber where it mixes with the grounds and the coffee brews. As soon as all the water is up in the top you remove the heat. As the bottom cools the pressure becomes a vacuum and sucks the brewed coffee back into the bottom. A cloth filter between the top and bottom keeps the grounds in the top. The vacuum/pressure force supports a finer cloth filter than gravity alone.

I wouldn't expect this to be practical for less than full pots (at least a few cups of coffee at a time. )

...I've often looked at them for sale and thought maybe, but in the past I've also been very disappointed with coffee machines, and stick with my cheap Italian pot 99% of the time lol but the siphon at the very least looks very cool

The vacuum pot makes excellent coffee... by definition you can't burn the coffee, and the brew time is generally defined by room temperature. (less than full loads may alter brew times etc.).  For less than full pot brews I would investigate Pour-over
https://www.sweetmarias.com/category/brewing-equipment/brewers/pour-over
or even french press https://www.sweetmarias.com/category/brewing-equipment/brewers/french-press

Japanese tho? Coffee making is not something I associate with Japan, but a quick search of google reveals that Japan has done what Japan always does, and turned it into an art-form-come-meditation, intrigued now another one to try (but if anyone puts a marshmallow cat in my coffee i'll not be impressed)

Japanese were leaders in putting timers and even bean grinders in counter top brewers. The vacuum pot is more than a century old (according to wiki). They can be fragile and are easy to break (I broke at least one, maybe more.)

I do love pretty much all coffee out of Africa, not sure I've tried anything from Congo tho, will definitely be trying that, nice to hear something positive from the region for a change; lets hope the industry stays as a community project and avoids the corruption of western industry and Congo politics & militias

My go-to coffee source just added one from Rwanda, they also list two from Congo, but say they aren't free trade due to instability in the region.
https://www.sweetmarias.com/category/green-coffee/africa-and-arabia/congo#
https://www.sweetmarias.com/product/rwanda-karongi-gitesi-4942

My most recent coffee order was "Cameroon" (first time for me). Tom from Sweet Marias has never failed to find good coffee (yet) from all around the world. All different and all good.

Sorry I don't see any from NZ but several coffees from SE Asia.

JR