DIY automation Ider

[Bluzzi]

What an amazing project if we could get it off the ground!

VCA is way easier than moving faders and less costly but....how can you not prefer sitting there and watching real faders move by themselves!

If I get the thread you want to use an existing protocol to control moving faders that in turn control the analog audio path in the strip?

Or is it the other way around? You want to control a DAW with moving faders? That exists and quite cheap so I think its my first guess.

I would be into doing some research and implementation on a moving fader solution that you can retrofit on an existing analog mixing console.
It something that can be tested with 1 fader first and then add a few more and see how it goes.

Not something I would attempt alone but maybe together we can get somewhere?

jim

 

[Geert Heyrman]

I would definately want to start this project in the near future, but I prefer VCA baced as all my faders have them, but I lack the original studercomputer for automation. I know a guy who did the mod I was talking about using a behringer cybermix. He just used the studer VCA's instead and it worked like a scharm. As the cybermix is a behringer ripoff of the mackie ultramix ... I prefer the mackie as it also has a controller with it.

Moving faders would be really nice although I don't know if I can fit it in the fader module witch is allready full of electronics. i'll post a picture of a fadermodule this evening.

Geert

 

[Geert Heyrman]

http://www.mediacontent.net/m1001s/noframes/mbtoc.htm

Pretty interesting read although not directly related. But there are schematics on their page

Geert

 

[safe as milk]

hi
hope im on topic,
for ruairioflaherty,
i was looking at a console last weekend to replace mine,
it had audiomate flying faders running on it(martinsound)
the output of which went through a standard midi rack, then on to a mac.
his was via a jl cooper but im sure a unitor would be fine,
i watched it send midi data as he touched the faders,
i was so impressed i think im going to dump my desks vca system
for a s/h set of audiomate,
then mod it?

there must be a way of making it control pro tools/logic etc?
it's like it's half way there already

 

[the scum]

So where would we find a fader with the following spec:

-Motorized
-Dual tracks:
- one linear, for position sensing
- one log, for routing the audio through

 

[Bluzzi]

I have a P&G motorized mono fader. I do not have the specs on it. Its from the 1980's. Never used!

I had it on the BlackMarket but no one responded. I was just about to put it on eBay though.

In any case I think its better to try a new one. Alps is way cheaper than P&G.

jim

 

[ruairioflaherty]

[quote author="safe as milk"]

there must be a way of making it control pro tools/logic etc?
it's like it's half way there already[/quote]

Hey dude,

sorry I missed this, my phone line went down in a strorm last week so I was offline. I will check into the MartinSound system - is it current product?

As for being off topic - there is no real topic! We're all just kicking around ideas for dream mixers,

cheers,
Ruairi

 

[safe as milk]

hi
not sure if it's available new,
the martinsound website still has info on it,
it's the system they were shipping with neotek elites/elan's
at least up till 1999/2000 ish.
i know it does groups/group mutes/snapshots/etc
and runs on any old mac.

if i get anymore info i'll post it here

thanks

 

[smallbutfine]

If you wanna buy a midi controlled passive mixer/fader type of thing (no VCA), please watch out for Hoef HF-16 Automix from Austria.
Midi learn, different fade algorithms for interpolating the midi messages resolution for high reso fades ( :idea: that's the way to do smooth fades with midi - not like the niche stuff you might know...) - 16ch 250? new. Unbalanced. (console recording insert, there's detailed instruction on how to build an automation/fader switch into your desk).
Originally used for broadcast automation of old desks.
Quite advanced system capable of fader grouping (so midi delay between channels doesn't matter).
These units are still sold.
(BTW Hoef Audio did a nice multiband compressor/agc also...)
So DIY is probably not worth the (programming) trouble, EVEN if you are familiar with midibox (that is quite advanced enough for this kind of tasks)...

Kind regards,

Martin

PS: I use this 'new tascam thing' US-2400. It's great IMHO - my flying faders - silent.

 

[safe as milk]

smallbutfine,
have you been inside your tascam us-2400 for a snoop around the faders and motors?got any pics?
if it were possible to change faders for audio ones but keep the motors,
and brains etc.
i'd seriously consider buying a couple and stuffing them into my console
as that would work out less than half the cost of the audiomate system im talking to a dealer about at the mo and instantly compatible with a daw.
at the mo im stuck with archaic mci jh50 vca system/P+G faders tho.

oh, can u chain more than one us-2400?

thankyou

 

[pucho812]

martin sound is still doing flying faders. They finally did an update with new versions og hardware and soft. It now can run on windows XP and they make a side car option that is supposed to be insane but will chain into the new version of flying faders so potentially you could add it to an existing console with the new flying faders and get more I/O for mixing and recording. The system is pricy i looked into a 56 channel system plus 8 group faders for a client and he was quoted the nice sum of 55K(US)

 

[safe as milk]

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=5707.0 guys you ought to check this out. looks like someone's done it already! amazing

 

[pucho812]

nice

 

[smallbutfine]

:razz: Yeah, crazy people over here at the midibox forum :razz: .

As for the tascam, i did not open it by now and probably won't do while having full warranty, but i can say this is a fairly flat case and the original 'faders' are no conventional faders but more like pressure sensitive switchtraces kind of thing. I would doubt that the motors will be able to drive audiofaders smooth enough (if i compare that 'feel' to the 'feel' i got when using e.g. B.ringer BCF-2000 driving real faders)...but maybe?
I will use them for midi steering a HF-16 passive DCA box and digital in the box volume with passive summer for downmix mainly, so it's fine for me as is. I do not use an analog mixer anymore, although we still have a desk...I am excited about the summing in the new 64bit version of Sonar - i hope it widely makes passive summing obsolete for most projects (whilst still having this option...)

Yeah, i love this tascam box, i do not need this analog fader feel (where others say it is 'toyish' i think it is a brilliant alternative to the full-fledged mackie or better controllers at a fraction of the price). It takes in-the-box working to a very good analog like style for me - i must admit i never had *great* problems working with mouse and keys, but this is really taking workflow to another (incomparable) level.

Kind regards,

Martin

 

[safe as milk]

hi
just letting u all know some info for motorized faders for audio
controlled by logic/cubase/hui.(it can be done)

in case anybody is feeling brave enough to try to do this

prices for faders with servo track 10k lin
touch sense
audio track 10k log

i got a quote from penny+giles for 40+ of 3000 series
98uk each/$175 !

140uk/$250 for the triple track(servo+2audio) master fader

i should hear back from alps in the next 24hrs will post that then

thankyou

 

[ruairioflaherty]

I'm still interested in this project in a big way but I know it will be a long long term project. Please post any info you get get,

thanks,
Ruairi

 

[andre tchmil]

That could be a wonderfull project.
I have an EMT desk here, with the Penny and Giles faders.
I was toying with the idea as well.
the HUI route would do just fine.
In fact, I can't remember the last time that I used the mute function with Protools.
So basic fader and solo is enough for me here.

 

[safe as milk]

hi andre
re this system/idea,
if your not already a member
use the link above to the midibox forum/ucapps
and if you have the time, read about people making
logic control/hui's etc as im thinking that's the way to go.
the main headache will be sorting out any interferance/r.f from
the digital boards and such, affecting the audio track of the faders.

are your p+g motorized? mine are not/vca :sad:

thanks

 

[andre tchmil]

My P+G are not motorized, BUT the big standard ones, like used in Neve consoles
they an be easily replaced by any standard Motorised fader, .... someone told me.

 

[chriss]

I also like the idea of using the midi-knob.box for audio faders. But isn't there the problem of only 127 steps for the whole 100mm of fade-way? Could work well for snapshots and fast moves but for small fades it could be noticably steppie, couldn't it?
The only way for better resolution would be the pitch-bend control, right? But is this one really 16 bit or is it a special implementation? And anyway this would reduce the number of possible channels per midi-port to 16, so for a 48-channel-console you'd need 3 midi-ports. Is there a chance to have 16-bit resoultion on the knob-box and to use the pitch-bender for fader-control?

Chris