DIY Phase Meter?

[clintrubber]

Nice thread !

Makes me curious to how the Beh. EX-1 does it - probably EXOR-based as well. Haven't opened the box yet.

 

[Guest]

Keith
Something like the Goniometer?
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan05/articles/thebox2.htm

 

[clintrubber]

[quote author="uk03878"]Keith
Something like the Goniometer?
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan05/articles/thebox2.htm[/quote]

And that makes me think again of a DIY-design that appeared in EW+WW years ago.
:wink: (Let me know if someone wants to know when that was, can look it up).

 

[clintrubber]

[quote author="nrgrecording"]Doesn't makes much sense with the open input, eh? :wink:

But somehow its the same at the original pcb:
http://www.nrgrecording.de/assets/images/phasemeter_original.jpg

But not a big problem... The pin has to be connected to the to +. I have corrected it.. look here:
http://www.nrgrecording.de/phasemeter_V2.pdf

and here is the schematic:
http://www.nrgrecording.de/assets/images/phasemeter.GIF[/quote]

Just checking before I might slam this on veroboard:
anybody making some PCBs for this ? Or made already some and is having a spare, ugly & undrilled one available ?

Thanks,

Peter

 

[clintrubber]

[quote author="nrgrecording"]and here is the schematic:
http://www.nrgrecording.de/assets/images/phasemeter.GIF[/quote]
In the schematic, seems like a 10k resistor missing between the supply & inv. inputs of the '393 ?
(Resistor is present in layout though)

Bye,

Peter

 

[clintrubber]

[quote author="clintrubber"]
And that makes me think again of a DIY-design that appeared in EW+WW years ago.
:wink: (Let me know if someone wants to know when that was, can look it up).[/quote]
Just to satisfy my own curiousity w.r.t. the Electronics World 'dotscope' circuit:

Monitor, Stereo audio
Monitor, Stereo audio Robert Kesler March 1998, p225 When making audio recordings, it is useful to have an at-a-glance overview of the phase and amplitude relationships between the two stereo channels - particularly if there is a chance that the two channels will be combined to produce mono. This Dotscope provides that information, together with a direct mono compatibility indication.
http://www.televisionmag.co.uk/mag/default.asp?dir=ew&p=fulllist&id=79

Lots of LEDs and also a programmable device (GAL) involved. Interesting, but that simple circuit from 'remix' will do fine for me.

 

[yan_b]

can someone explain the theory of operation behind this http://www.nrgrecording.de/assets/images/phasemeter.GIF
particularly the xors input to pin 6, i dont't get it.

 

[clintrubber]

[quote author="yan_b"]can someone explain the theory of operation behind this http://www.nrgrecording.de/assets/images/phasemeter.GIF
particularly the xors input to pin 6, i dont't get it.[/quote]

I think of it as an intrinsically correct way of setting the full scale level. Those two gates on top were available anyway. But since this is CMOS-logic it actually won't matter that much.

 

[clintrubber]

[quote author="mediatechnology"]Here's the SSL Phase correlation meter:

www.tenmilecreek.net/images/ssl/ssl_82E05.pdf[/quote]
Thanks, interesting. Was just wondering about that 4583, expecting it to be an ordinary CMOS 4XXX-member. Turned out to be a relatively obscure part (dual Schmitt-trigger).

 

[clintrubber]

[quote author="mediatechnology"]Motorola made this part as an MC14583 to further confuse things.[/quote]
That did the trick, thanks ! :thumb: MC14583-pdf easily found on http://www.datasheetarchive.com

Bye,

Peter

 

[Sammas]

Hey Guys,

While scanning some parts of a manual I found something that maybe be helpful to you lot. 40 led phase meter...

Nothing terribly hard to get if i remember correctly. I'll have to take another look though. I think the LED VU meters have LM334's for IC3-IC12 with a TL074 for the quad opamp.

If you guys want I can yank the meter card out and write down all the component values... possibly even take a happy snap of the card also...

 

[clintrubber]

[quote author="Sammas"]Hey Guys,

While scanning some parts of a manual I found something that maybe be helpful to you lot. 40 led phase meter...

If you guys want I can yank the meter card out and write down all the component values... possibly even take a happy snap of the card also...[/quote]
Please don't, we'd really dislike to see that kind of info. :wink:


But of course, yes please, always interesting. But please don't overdo - so far it looks in essence like the simpler 'remix'-kind of approach.

40 LEDs ? :shock: Who needs that kind of resolution ? :roll:

Thanks,

Peter

 

[clintrubber]

Strange things happening ? I'm talking about the EXOR inputs (pins #2-#5) - not connected to anything else...

The R15 & R19 connection to +17V looks strange at first as well, but could be depending on values. Expecting a relatively high value to give a threshold.

 

[Sammas]

yup... 3M9's

It is late, and lighting it minimal so i can't guarantee they are 100% correct.

IC3 through IC12 are LM339N's. All of their -ve inputs are linked via 100 ohm resistors. To the right of the TL074 is a CD4030BE. Sorry I have no idea what it is... i have never seen one before. It is in standard 18pin dip packaging though.

The four transistors are ZTX750 PNP types. All diodes are 1N747's.

 

[yan_b]

well i built frank phase meter , i compared the response to wavelab phase meter and they look consistence,
exept that it does not show in phase or close condition, turnning of the trimmer change the clibration of the bar,but does not solve this problem.

 

[clintrubber]

[quote author="Sammas"]yup... 3M9's


IC3 through IC12 are LM339N's. All of their -ve inputs are linked via 100 ohm resistors. To the right of the TL074 is a CD4030BE. Sorry I have no idea what it is... i have never seen one before. It is in standard 18pin dip packaging though.
[/quote]

Thanks for adding :thumb:

4030 is a quad EXOR (CMOS-logic). Those dangling inputs remain puzzling though.

Regards,

Peter

 

[clintrubber]

[quote author="yan_b"] exept that it does not show in phase or close condition, turnning of the trimmer change the clibration of the bar,but does not solve this problem.[/quote]
Sorry, I don't understand. What looks wrong ?

 

[yan_b]

i mean 0 and small degrees shifts are not presented on the bargraph .

 

[Guest]

Sorry for being thick - I have a Sifam Phase Meter
It looks like a PPM (ie white on Black) - but the whit needle is in the centre of the display and not right or left
I have the Mk1 version - the mk2 version details are here:
http://www.canford.co.uk/commerce/productdetails.aspx?productid=58-348
Here is the technical sheet
http://www.canford.co.uk/commerce/resources/datsht/02-097.pdf


I want to do something like this
From Geoff Tanners web site
"The phase meter is a true analogue sum/difference analysing meter that is constantly checking the integrity of your stereo mix so that you will know that there's a problem at the moment it happens. Then hit each channel cut switch in turn to see what source has the phase issue and, by it's temporary removal, the phase reading is corrected.

Then, you can fix the fault by operating a phase flip at source or fitting a phase reversed cable on the offending channel's pre fade insertion.

The phase meter has a lot of internal gain and will check the phase of very low level signals. It's a sensitive instrument and will pick up phase issues intentional and unintentional.
"

Any pointers?

I

 

[gyraf]

It's not clear what you're asking for..?