Donald trump. what is your take on him?

[lassoharp]

I think he has a decent chance at winning.

Looking at his likely opponents,

I don't think Hillary was destined to make the Presidency - no offense in any way to her - she's amazingly competent but she doesn't present well to the public.  And before anybody says "And you think Trump does?!?"  I know what you mean and will explain in a sec.  Hillary is too introverted and secretive and this I think has always been threatening to the public in a subtle but strong way.  She's not a center stage limelighter.  She is  a master behind the scenes type talent and I say that respectfully and  sincerely.

Jeb Bush simply doesn't inspire much confidence and most people cringe at the thought of another Bush in the White House.  But I would look at him differently if he had the kind of gumption his brother has, but he does not. He appears too meek for the job.

Bernie Sanders is too cantankerous and pessimistic to take the big chair IMO.  And, although he is very in touch with the ideologies of what a large faction of the public wants to hear, his appeal is more on the emotional and sentimental level - he appeals to people wanting to tune into being pi&&ed off - hence pessimistic.  He's become an expert on everything that's wrong with not a lot of practical solutions to make them right.  Bill O'Reilly of all people got his goat on this and Sanders just got sullen on him.

Trump is a brash loudmouth with a ton of gumption.  He ain't a-feared of nothin' . .. . . . .in a way he comes across like James Dean. He's a rebel and an outsider that doesn't seem to belong to any party.  He's a lot like America was just before the Revolution.  America was born from rebellion and loves a good rebel.  They might be willing to excuse his foot-in-mouth disorder.  We've had worse.

Also, we've had 8 years of a President who you couldn't say anything bad about without inciting a racism argument. We've been embroiled in deeply divisive and polarized times.  With Trump, the country might actually feel unified in an odd way - 4 years of a Trump bashing party.  He can take it and doesn't care.  That's actually one of the traits of a good leader.

I think America is in the mood for something different, and Trump does seem to qualify for that much more than the other candidates.

It seems like there's this giant festering resentment over nation on the subject of political correctness on the subject of not offending anyone.  I don't think it's that people secretly want to offend anyone, its just that they're tired of feeling like they have to walk on eggshells over every little thing.  And, it's often worse when people feel like they can't speak their mind because things eventually turn nasty.  Enter Trump.  Mr Rocketmouth kind of blows the lid off that pot in a grand way.  He's an easy target.  People might actually get along better along political lines - in between their eye rolls and laughter at his assorted shortcomings.  Again, we've had worse, and we've survived.
   

 

[Pip]

Yes isn't it interesting that both parties in our plutocracy system have candidates, at this early stage, at the fore that go against the grain of the party norm? Trump on the Right and Sanders on the left. But as Deep Throat said in All the Presidents Men "follow the money"! It will show the way that this will fall. This so far is a media circus nothing more and sound bytes are sound bytes is all. Mr. Trump is a paper tiger with little or no real substance for political follow through. Saying you are going to do something and doing it on the Beltway are vastly different animals!

Thanks to Mr. Roberts for a brilliant point by point response.

 

[DaveP]

Alan has summed up the situation very succinctly.

As a UK citizen but living in Europe, we were thrilled when Obama was elected, his powers of oratory were made all the more distinct by the comparison with the previous incumbent.  The fact that America could elect a black President was an enormous boost to democracy and a credit to the American system.  Unfortunately, his government's grasp of foreign policy has been his weak spot.  By contrast Putin has been very adroit and has shown he really understands the Real Politik of Syria for example.  I hope to God that Obama makes a rapprochement with Putin soon because we in the west need him on our side.

This is the area (foreign policy) where we don't know how Trump would perform, any ideas?

DaveP

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yes isn't it interesting that both parties in our plutocracy system have candidates, at this early stage, at the fore that go against the grain of the party norm?

Actually it's pretty common this early in the race(s) for the more extreme partisan elements to gain more of the spot light. Thoughtful analysis does not consider Sanders or Trump*** electable in the general election.  Usually the way it goes, the far left and far right talking points must be responded to by the mainstream candidates so they can secure primary votes, drawing them further left and right. The mainstream candidates risk is satisfying the fringes to make it to the big show while not blowing the final  election (still over a year away) that will be decided by centrist voters.

Trump on the Right and Sanders on the left. But as Deep Throat said in All the Presidents Men "follow the money"! It will show the way that this will fall. This so far is a media circus nothing more and sound bytes are sound bytes is all. Mr. Trump is a paper tiger with little or no real substance for political follow through. Saying you are going to do something and doing it on the Beltway are vastly different animals!

Following the money, Hillary and Jeb are the safe bets for existing war chest, and ground organization.

Thanks to Mr. Roberts for a brilliant point by point response.

The bad news is my choice candidates haven't won for the last several elections, and I am withholding judgement on this one until this process runs a little further down the road. Being effective in governance is (3D) chess (unless you break the rules), while most elections are simple checkers (majority of voters decide based on a single issue). Since no one person can be all things to all people, some do better than others at trying.

The interesting politics this week is Boehner resigning. His far right detractors are taking a victory lap, but his likely replacement (McCarthy CA) is more liberal than he is. In the near term this will probably kick the budget can down the road without a shut down for a few more months, and maybe by then the Planned Parenthood brouhaha will have calmed down some.  In my judgement a government shut down would be used against the republicans in 2016 so Boehner is taking one for the team.... or not.

JR

*** I continue to be surprised that trump is still polling well in the primaries, and along my voting is checkers, not chess, Trump might actually be able to convince large numbers of votes to believe his claims (I don't). So I won't be placing any large bets against him.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Alan has summed up the situation very succinctly.

As a UK citizen but living in Europe, we were thrilled when Obama was elected, his powers of oratory were made all the more distinct by the comparison with the previous incumbent. 

He is a good campaigner and doesn't seem to have stopped campaigning yet. Bush was underestimated because of his speech pattern (borderline impediment).

The fact that America could elect a black President was an enormous boost to democracy and a credit to the American system. 

There have been several credible black politicians over the years with better judgement (IMO)_.

Unfortunately, his government's grasp of foreign policy has been his weak spot. 

That is likely influenced by where you live,. IMO he is nothing but "weak spots". The middle east is a debacle and I regret that several of my predictions regarding the region came to pass (like we were pulling out of Iraq too soon).

By contrast Putin has been very adroit and has shown he really understands the Real Politik of Syria for example.  I hope to God that Obama makes a rapprochement with Putin soon because we in the west need him on our side.

Putin is X-KGB  so he is on Putin's side.  I can't be optimistic about him changing his spots as long as he can run amok unchallenged.

This is the area (foreign policy) where we don't know how Trump would perform, any ideas?

DaveP

Trump in my judgement is an unknown regarding what kind of world leader he would be. He has enjoyed some commercial success in private industry, because he can fire people that don't agree with him.  In government you need to be able to get people to follow you for other reasons than you will fire him.

His broad strokes suggestions for how to handle things like immigration are just impossible, but resonate with low information voters who don't understand how the world works.  I prefer to see a state governor elected since they have experience operating the levers of political power, with more economic discipline (states can't carry huge debts like the federal government does $18T).  A business man should have more fiscal discipline than most.

He has surprised me so far and he seems intelligent enough. I can't imagine him doing any worse than the current WH occupant. The future hasn't happened yet so I can't be certain about anything.

JR

 

[rob_gould]

To US folks

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/24/donald-trump-on-waterboarding-even-if-it-doesnt-work-they-deserve-it

Does he actually believe this do you think?  Or is he just trying to capitalise on the zeitgeist and pick low hanging fruit?

I notice a huge amount of 'them' and 'us' in his quotes and comments.  Strong rhetoric.  He definitely knows what he is doing.

 

[lassoharp]

I notice a huge amount of 'them' and 'us' in his quotes and comments.  Strong rhetoric.

Indeed.  If it were limited to making a stand against the current terrorist problem it would be ok, but unfortunately the "us" and "them" divisions are being sucked into partisan wars within the US by a public that seems all too willing to go in that direction.

 

[rob_gould]

I notice a huge amount of 'them' and 'us' in his quotes and comments.  Strong rhetoric.

Indeed.  If it were limited to making a stand against the current terrorist problem it would be ok, but unfortunately the "us" and "them" divisions are being sucked into partisan wars within the US by a public that seems all too willing to go in that direction.

I think the same 'us and them' tropes are being purposely created in the UK too, by politicians and then media.  It's classic divide and rule. 

Just a few examples...

Non-muslims vs Muslims
Taxpayers vs benefits applicants
pro-immigration vs anti-immigration
car drivers vs cyclists

And all the while, the people belonging to all these (actually not so) disparate groups are being taken advantage of on a colossal scale by government and corporations.

 

[jasonallenh]

Retweets whatever he finds that makes him angry at the time.

Just kinda repeats stuff that the base is angry about.

Lacks a lot of detail with regard to his 'solutions.' (How exactly do you force a sovereign nation to pay for a wall that we build?)

Doesn't think we 'win' anything anymore.

Really hates the West Palm Beach International airport.

I'm deeply concerned that he's currently the frontrunner for the nomination. I likely wouldn't vote Rep with the current field, but I would still like to see a high-quality candidate on  either side. The top three right now are all pretty weak/weird.

 

[JohnRoberts]

The current poll leaders are riding on a wave of anti-politician sentiment.

Trumps proves that he is not a politician every time he opens his mouth, but he is a celebrity and that is enough for many low information voters who sympathize with his hyperbolic rants.

We still have a year to go and a lot can happen in that time.

I expect it will be another "lesser evil" choice. My picks rarely ever win so I try not to be too invested in any candidate.

Funny observation I heard... People are complaining about christmas music before thanksgiving, while we are arguing about the 2016 election already.  8)

JR

 

[jasonallenh]

Funny observation I heard... People are complaining about christmas music before thanksgiving, while we are arguing about the 2016 election already.  8)

JR

I've seen this pop up too. Doesn't make sense when the temp can't get below 80...........

 

[mattiasNYC]

he is a celebrity and that is enough for many low information voters
JR

"low information voters".... sounds like a euphemism...

 

[mattiasNYC]

I notice a huge amount of 'them' and 'us' in his quotes and comments.  Strong rhetoric.

Indeed.  If it were limited to making a stand against the current terrorist problem it would be ok, but unfortunately the "us" and "them" divisions are being sucked into partisan wars within the US by a public that seems all too willing to go in that direction.

I think the same 'us and them' tropes are being purposely created in the UK too, by politicians and then media.  It's classic divide and rule. 

Just a few examples...

Non-muslims vs Muslims
Taxpayers vs benefits applicants
pro-immigration vs anti-immigration
car drivers vs cyclists

And all the while, the people belonging to all these (actually not so) disparate groups are being taken advantage of on a colossal scale by government and corporations.

Agreed.

 

[Pip]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whig_Party_%28United_States%29

 

[thermionic]

The Exciting Adventures of President Trump's Hair - leader of the free world (and the moon)

 

[living sounds]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/11/donald-trump-manchurian-candidate-2016

 

[ENS Audio]

Donald Trump's true is not necessarily being a business man  or investor but a marketing genius if you really think about it.  Some people are saying he's in the race to sabotage the GOP for Hillary.  I don't know about that but even if Trump becomes POTUS doubtful he's even serious about illegal immigration because it's big business who want migrants to flood the country in order to drive down wages even further.

Besides how much you want to bet the majority of people (housekeepers, landscapers) who maintain his estates are migrants themselves?

 

[Winetree]

What is said below is exactly what is now happening.

They will kill him before they let him be president.  It could be a Republican or Democrat that instigates the shutting up of Trump.  Don't be surprised if Trump has an accident.  Some people are getting very nervous: Barack Obama, Valerie Jarrett, Eric Holder, Hillary Clinton and Jon Corzine, to name just a few.  It's about the unholy dynamics between big government, big business, and big media.  They all benefit by the billions of dollars from this partnership, and it’s in all of their interests to protect one another.  It’s one for all and all for one.

It’s a heck of a filthy relationship that makes everyone filthy rich — everyone except the American people.  We get ripped off.  We’re the patsies.  But for once, the powerful socialist cabal and the corrupt crony capitalists are scared.  The over-the-top reaction to Trump by politicians of both parties, the media, and the biggest corporations of America has been so swift and insanely angry that it suggests they are all threatened and frightened like never before.

Donald Trump can self-fund.  No matter how much they say to the contrary, the media, business, and political elite understand that Trump is no joke.  He could actually win and upset their nice cozy apple cart.  It’s no coincidence that everyone has gotten together to destroy The Donald.  It’s because most of the other politicians are part of the “old boys club.”  They talk big, but they won’t change a thing.  They are all beholden to big-money donors.  They are all owned by lobbyists, unions, lawyers, gigantic environmental organizations, and multinational corporations . . . like Big Pharma or Big Oil.  Or they are owned lock, stock and barrel by foreigners, like George Soros owns Obama or foreign governments that own Hillary with their Clinton Foundation donations.

These run-of-the-mill establishment politicians are all puppets owned by big money.  But there’s one man who isn’t beholden to anyone.  There’s one man who doesn’t need foreigners, or foreign governments, or George Soros, or the United Auto Workers, or the teachers’ union, or the Service Employees International Union, or the Bar Association to fund his campaign.  Billionaire tycoon and maverick Donald Trump doesn’t need anyone’s help.  That means he doesn’t care what the media says.  He doesn’t care what the corporate elites think.  That makes him very dangerous to the entrenched interests.  That makes Trump a huge threat to those people.  Trump can ruin everything for the bribed politicians and their spoiled slave masters.

Don’t you ever wonder why the GOP has never tried to impeach Obama?  Don’t you wonder why John Boehner and Mitch McConnell talk a big game, but never actually try to stop Obama?  Don’t you wonder why Congress holds the purse strings, yet has never tried to defund Obamacare or Obama’s clearly illegal executive action on amnesty for illegal aliens?  Bizarre, right?  It defies logic, right?  First, I’d guess many key Republicans are being bribed.  Secondly, I believe many key Republicans are being blackmailed.  Whether they are having affairs, or secretly gay, or stealing taxpayer money, the National Security Agency knows everything.

Ask former House Speaker Dennis Hastert about that.  The government even knew he was withdrawing large sums of his own money from his own bank account.  The NSA, the SEC, the IRS, and all the other three-letter government agencies are watching every Republican political leader.  They surveil everything. Thirdly, many Republicans are petrified of being called “racists” . . . so they are scared to ever criticize Obama or call out his crimes, let alone demand his impeachment.  Fourth , why rock the boat?  After defeat or retirement, if you’re a “good boy,” you’ve got a $5 million-per-year lobbying job waiting.  The big-money interests have the system gamed.  Win or lose, they win.

But Trump doesn’t play by any of these rules.  Trump breaks up this nice, cozy relationship between big government, big media, and big business.  All the rules are out the window if Trump wins the Presidency.  The other politicians will protect Obama and his aides — but not Trump.  Remember: Trump is the guy who publicly questioned Obama’s birth certificate.  He questioned Obama’s college records and how a mediocre student got into an Ivy League university.  Now, he’s doing something no Republican has the chutzpah to do.  He’s questioning our relationship with Mexico; he’s questioning why the border is wide open; he’s questioning why no wall has been built across the border; he’s questioning if allowing millions of illegal aliens into America is in our best interests; he’s questioning why so many illegal aliens commit violent crimes, yet are not deported; and he’s questioning why our trade deals with Mexico, Russia and China are so bad.

Trump has the audacity to ask out loud why American workers always get the short end of the stick.  Good question!  I’m certain Trump will question what happened to the almost billion dollars given in a rigged no-bid contract to college friends of Michelle Obama at foreign companies to build the defective Obamacare website.  By the way, that tab is now up to $5 billion.  Trump will ask if Obamacare’s architects can be charged with fraud for selling it by lying.  Trump will investigate Obama’s widespread IRS conspiracy, not to mention Obama’s college records.  Trump will prosecute  Clinton and Obama for fraud committed to cover up Benghazi before the election.  How about the fraud committed by employees of the Labor Department when they made up dramatic job numbers in the last jobs report before the 2012 election?

Obama, the multinational corporations, and the media need to stop Trump.  They recognize this could get out of control.  If left unchecked, telling the raw truth and asking questions everyone else is afraid to ask, Trump could wake a sleeping giant.  Trump’s election would be a nightmare.  Obama has committed many crimes.  No one else but Trump would dare to prosecute.  He will not hesitate.  Once Trump gets in and gets a look at “the cooked books” and Obama’s records, the game is over.  The gig is up.  The goose is cooked.  Holder could wind up in prison. Jarrett could wind up in prison.  Obama bundler Corzine could wind up in prison for losing $1.5 billion of customer money.  Clinton could wind up in jail for deleting 32,000 emails, or for accepting bribes from foreign governments while Secretary of State, or for “misplacing” $6 billion as the head of the State Department, or for lying about Benghazi.  The entire upper level management of the IRS could wind up in prison.

Obamacare will be defunded and dismantled.  And Obama himself could wind up ruined, his legacy in tatters.  Trump will investigate. Trump will prosecute.  Trump will go after everyone involved.  That’s why the dogs of hell have been unleashed on Donald Trump.  Yes, it’s become open season on Donald Trump.  The left and the right are determined to attack his policies, harm his businesses, and, if possible, even keep him out of the coming debates.  But they can’t silence him.  And they sure can’t intimidate him.  The more they try, the more the public will realize that he’s the one telling the truth.

 
  Jim and the very lovely Silvia, from San Felipe de Lara, Guatemala

A friend is one of the nicest things you can have, and one of the best things you can be.

"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the Government take care of him….better take a closer look at the American Indian"
  Henry Ford

 

[dfuruta]

Bernie Sanders isn't going for corporate interests either, and he has the benefit of not being a raving fantasist...
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/ says it all, to me.

 

[Brian Roth]

A lot of people are pissed off this election cycle:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/establishment-presidential-candidates-battle-to-end-flirtation-with-outsiders-1451955959

Me too  shrug.