Donald trump. what is your take on him?

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I've tried to stay away from this thread, I am almost sorry I started it....

But no matter

Clinton is not a blatant liar, don't kid yourself.  She is much a liar if not more so then trump.
 
pucho812 said:
I've tried to stay away from this thread, I am almost sorry I started it....

But no matter

Clinton is not a blatant liar, don't kid yourself.  She is much a liar if not more so then trump.

I'm sure you'll be proving that any second now.
 
I'm sure you'll be proving that any second now.
Just like you'll be proving that Iran's ballistic missile test was totally benign, and we have nothing to worry about, it was only a half ton payload after all, nuclear capable....yes but....yes....but....yes....but......

DaveP
 
DaveP said:
Just like you'll be proving that Iran's ballistic missile test was totally benign, and we have nothing to worry about, it was only a half ton payload after all, nuclear capable....yes but....yes....but....yes....but......

DaveP

Yes Dave, well done. Those two things are exactly the same. Comparing clear lies told by Trump with clear lies told by Clinton, versus on the other hand me proving something about Iran's missile test. Great work Dave. You sure you don't work for the Republican party?

But since you're so afraid of the big bad Iran, what can you tell us about this missile test, facts that are proven by either Iran's admission or by intelligence agencies?

Ah, sorry, I forgot: I'm not supposed to ask you questions. You're just supposed to inform us how this new missile is a clear indication of Iran's nuclear weapons program and how it's really just the same as a ready-to-use nuke or whatever, just like we were told Iraq had stockpiles of WMDs that posed an imminent threat.

I'm not saying Iran doesn't have this program on a shelf. I'm not even saying it isn't active. All I'm saying is that for some reason you conservative wet your pants every time someone says "Iran" because "Hezbollah" and "WMD" and "NUKES", JUST like the conservative media and politicians you don't listen to keep saying.

Don't worry. I'm sure you get your war soon enough and another mid-eastern society can be invaded and colonized by the great west for all our benefit, but mostly theirs, since they don't know how to behave.

And it'll be all their own fault. Again. Found WMDs or not.
 
Like... did it ever occur to you guys that these "soft" "liberals" that whined about the Iraq invasion were actually right to be skeptic about the WMD claims because there was ZERO solid evidence for it?

....that these "soft" "liberals" warned about the neo-con agenda to overthrow Saddam which they'd formulated well before W got elected?

....that maybe, just maybe, these "soft" "liberals" are right again?

Probably not.
 
No, I no more work for the Republican party than you do for Iran, I'm just trying to balance things up a bit, because the arguments seem too one-sided here.  Mostly caused by excessive disappointment about losing the election.  It seems arrogant to me that liberals think they are the sole custodians of America and that Trump voters are not fit to have the leader they voted for.  It's that Entitlement word again.  I care more about their voters rights than I do for Trump, as it happens.

Regarding the rest of what you said: You have attached an awful lot of excess baggage to your reply,  but I think the UN security council is more concerned than you are

I think that some leaders took advantage of Obama's undoubtedly benign nature, and they have pursued their nuclear ambitions.  North Korea definitely has, and I have serious doubts about the sincerity of the Iranian religious leadership, the missile test was hardly for peaceful purposes and does not appear to comply with Obama's agreement.

DaveP

 
Better that you ask people in the know:-
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iran-ballistic-missile-test-un-security-council-discuss-benjamin-netanyahu-israel-boris-johnson-a7555206.html

DaveP
 
I think the protest at UC Berkeley is a total disgrace, I care nothing for what the guy had to say, but to deny free speech is fascism in my book.  These people are like the Taliban and IS, forcing their views and opinions on others, in the name of defense.  They wore black which is quite fitting for a Black Shirt action.  A clear breach of the First Amendment.

This paranoia reminds me of the Mc Carthy years in the US, quite ironic really.

If this guy had actually spoken, what's the worst that could have happened?  Mass hypnosis?  People are supposed to be smart at Universities, capable of objective thought and analysis, instead they are being shown as pathetic victims needing protection from alt right propaganda.

DaveP
 
mattiasNYC said:
And a nation having two choices where the most popular loses to someone who threatens to incarcerate his opponent isn't really democracy either.
Never said the US was a democracy (a republic). Many voters would like to see Hillary held to account for several things but as she famously said "At this point what does it matter".  My suspicion is that hackers who thought she would win the election, may have held back some juicy stuff to use for leverage later, of course this is pure speculation, and ancient history now.
You even have a fellow conservative here who "schooled us" on this declaring clearly that the US is not a democracy, but a republic. So there you go.
Um  that was me? I know I've shared that here before.

JR
 
DaveP said:
Better that you ask people in the know:-
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iran-ballistic-missile-test-un-security-council-discuss-benjamin-netanyahu-israel-boris-johnson-a7555206.html

DaveP

It's as if some of you haven't learnt anything from the past 20-years. Blair didn't happen, there was no Iraq, Afghanistan, or Libya, and Syria hasn't been burning for the last 6-years. And how about Yemen? We're so concerned with ballistic missiles being shot to nowhere, surely we're all losing our minds over the 20 million people being starved to death by the Saudi-UK-US coalition?

If you really want balance, read these links:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38767874
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/_TP_/edition/news/british-policy-fuelling-yemen-crisis-ttwjj0r00?ni-statuscode=acsaz-307

That's what the whole world playing deaf, dumb, blind and stupid looks like. No urgent UN Security Council meetings to put an end to this either...
 
It seems arrogant to me that liberals think they are the sole custodians of America and that Trump voters are not fit to have the leader they voted for.  It's that Entitlement word again. 
How about we tone it down a bit? Personal attacks against groups of people lead to personal attacks against individuals. Even though Trump has normalized personal attacks and the whole country is starting to follow that example, let's try to keep this forum at a higher level.

Why the talk about Clinton?  She lost, who knows what she would have done?  It's the present doing that is of concern
I agree - but it's a good distraction to keep people distracted from what's really going on.

In  the news:

Russia is purging suspected US spies. I hope Trump didn't give Putin names.
It hasn't been in the news much that part of the leaked info to the CIA had that Putin offered Trump a share of a 19% sale of a Russia oil company - Rosneft - last year if he won the election. That share of the oil company sold in December after the election, to a untraceable "russian doll" of shell companies.  Value in the billions.

And... today the Republican Congress is working on turning back a transparency law by the Obama administration requiring oil companies to disclose payments to foreign governments.  Transparency is bad for the very wealthy (and corrupt).

 
DaveP said:
I find your system of constructing a government quite strange, why should the opposing party have any say in its make-up?
This is just one of several checks and balances designed into our system.  The president (executive branch) gets to select his appointments, while the congress (legislative branch)  approves them or not with a vote. This way neither side has a free hand to load the administration leadership too strongly based on ideology (while they still do).

But even that vote is not trivial. This week democrats delayed at least one committee hearing by just not showing up. Another way to delay votes is to filibuster, where the senate must vote to have a vote.  Traditionally it takes 60 votes (of the 100 senators) to over-ride a filibuster and vote on the issue (the republicans do not have 60 votes now while some more popular appointments might, but these days it's mostly team politics along party lines).

Harry Reid The former leader of the senate changed the filibuster rules to only 50 votes needed to over-ride filibuster to get lesser appointments voted on  for Pres Obama (SCOTUS still requires 60 votes AFAIK). The senate rules changes only require a 51 vote majority so that "nuclear option" used by Reid in the last term could be used by the republicans this time to get some appointments voted on. This is the obvious danger of changing such rules since political power oscillates between left and right and what helped the democrats last time could help the republicans this time. The best government is divided where both sides get a say, while preventing the new leader from sitting his cabinet and getting to governing is not very productive or good for the country (while the losing party is quite OK with this).

It is worth noting that we are most vulnerable during such administration transitions and Iran is saber rattling and stirring up tensions in the region. Reportedly Iranian backed rebels in Yemen fired on a Saudi ship. (Yemen is just one of several proxy conflicts in the region). The ballistic missile test is another provocation. 
Why can't the President just select his team and get on with it?

In the UK, the entire government would have been in place from Nov 9.

I also find the politicization of the  Supreme Court a bit worrying, isn't it better to have the judiciary entirely independent from political bias?
Another undesirable trend in the US has been activist judges, where they are effectively changing legislation from the bench, because they can't change it using the legislature.

The reason Judge Gorsuch is favored by conservatives is because he is an "originalist" or a jurist who interprets the constitution by what it meant when written. The constitution allows for change with amendments that are understandably hard to execute. Several SCOTUS jurist are all to comfortable interpreting the constitution based on ideology. This is why control of the several openings expected are so important. Right now it is a 4-4 tie and Gorsuch should return it to the 5-4 balance we had before Scalia died.

When a liberal justice retires (or dies) then we should expect a real fight, because it won't be returning SCOTUS to some status quo, but a more conservative bias.

JR
 
It's as if some of you haven't learnt anything from the past 20-years. Blair didn't happen, there was no Iraq, Afghanistan, or Libya, and Syria hasn't been burning for the last 6-years. And how about Yemen? We're so concerned with ballistic missiles being shot to nowhere, surely we're all losing our minds over the 20 million people being starved to death by the Saudi-UK-US coalition?
What I have learnt is that we are damned if we intervene and damned if we don't.  The grim reaper demands his spoils whatever which-way.

The concern about missiles (in that region), especially when they become nuclear, is that they will be targeted on Israel.  That would lead to a nuclear exchange that would cause unimaginable suffering.  This was the reasoning behind Obama's Iranian deal that had the entire security council on board and why Iranian adherence is so important.

DaveP
 
dmp said:
I agree - but it's a good distraction to keep people distracted from what's really going on.

Noting that Clinton's actions would be much the same points out the hypocrisy of kvetching about republicans doing something that your team would do sooner, and more unaccountably. Where she able. But she's not.

Futher, the other part of my comment suggests that pissant democrats in congress will support a WAR WITH IRAN if they have to vote on one, which you and hitchhiker will need to be aware of, I assume.
 
Quote Dave P
I think the protest at UC Berkeley is a total disgrace, I care nothing for what the guy had to say, but to deny free speech is fascism in my book.  These people are like the Taliban and IS, forcing their views and opinions on others, in the name of defense.  They wore black which is quite fitting for a Black Shirt action.  A clear breach of the First Amendment.

No other comments from the left or right?  150 non students possible paid to protest.  I don't like this guy much but this is the direction we're heading when one side is right and the other side is wrong.   
 
One side is right and the other side is wrong. The admirable thing about anachists is that they have the guts to get out and fight against what they object to. I'm sure many prefer the pussy hats.
 
One side is right and the other side is wrong.
If only life was that simple. ::)

The admirable thing about anachists is that they have the guts to get out and fight against what they object to.
That would be freedom of speech and law and order then, I think we did law of the jungle some time back.  If you want anarchy then Syria beckons. :(

DaveP
 
DaveP said:
That would be freedom of speech and law and order then, I think we did law of the jungle some time back.  If you want anarchy then Syria beckons. :(

The difference is what they're fighting for, DaveP, and against. You scoff at the ladies knitting, and you think the anarchists are uncouth. Seems like you just can't be pleased.
 

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