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It's so weird that, even though there's actual evidence that Trump's campaign colluded with Russia, the bad guys (according to Republicans) are the folks who dared to look into this collusion.

2 different movies, I suppose.

(Small bit of trivia: there has never--like never ever--been an FBI director who was a Democrat.)
 
apples and oranges... The Mueller report was trying to drive a partisan impeachment campaign.

===

This is an old complaint of mine but since we can get jail time for lying to our government, I think they should be held to a similar standard. Politicians and government officials should be sworn to tell only the truth. They lie because they can without consequences.

WWW said:
Among the Democrats the report makes look bad is U.S. Rep. Adam Schiff of California. In a March 2017 interview with MSNBC, when asked by Chuck Todd if all he had was a circumstantial case against Trump, Schiff said, “Actually, no, Chuck, I can tell you that the case is actually more than that. I can’t go into particulars, but there is more than circumstantial evidence now.”

When pressed by Todd if he had seen direct evidence of collusion between Trump and Russia, Schiff said: “I don’t want to go into specifics, but I will say that there is evidence that is not circumstantial and is very much worthy of investigation. That is what we ought to do.”

===
  • Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., on July 13, 2017: “This week, we saw cold, hard evidence of the Trump campaign, indeed the Trump family eagerly intending to collude possibly with Russia, a hostile foreign power, to influence American elections. In the month as we celebrate the courage of our founders, Republicans in Congress have become enablers of the Trump-Russia assault on our democracy.”
  • Former CIA Director John Brennan, on May 23, 2017: “I saw information intelligence that was worthy of investigation by the bureau to determine whether or not such operation of collusion was taking place.”
  • Rep. Jerry Nadler, D-N.Y., on Nov. 13, 2018: “It has become very clear that the Trump campaign colluded with Russians in trying to subvert the election.”
===
However, the Durham Report determined that all “highly concerning claims of Trump-related contacts with Russian intelligence were untrue.”
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The way to tell if a politician is lying is to look at their mouth. If their lips are moving they are lying.

JR
 
hodad said:
It's so weird that, even though there's actual evidence that Trump's campaign colluded with Russia, the bad guys (according to Republicans) are the folks who dared to look into this collusion.
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could you share that evidence? Durham did not find it, just the opposite.

IIRC Hillary and the Clinton foundation had some entanglements with Russian money.
hodad said:
2 different movies, I suppose.

(Small bit of trivia: there has never--like never ever--been an FBI director who was a Democrat.)
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Good... but the FBI has a long history of spying on Americans to collect dirt.

JR
 
JohnRoberts said:
Good... but the FBI has a long history of spying on Americans to collect dirt.
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But we never needed these more-current investigations/reports to tell us that. If our short FBI history has taught us anything, it’s that that is not changing anything soon! It seems each administration just makes it worse, under the powers of national security. Limiting personal-rights for protection of all is reality, under the law. To think Trump himself wasn’t actively trying to weaponize the DOJ and (and probably the FBI) to do bidding, is sticking your head in the sand.
 
Recording Engineer said:
Do you feel the same with the Mueller report then?
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From the Wikipedia article:

The report concludes that the investigation "did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities".
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mueller_report
I've seen nothing that convinces me that any attempt by Russia to influence recent elections had any meaningful effect. Hillary was not a likable candidate and her own actions and statements tanked her campaign. If anyone is guilty of conspiring to interfere it is her own campaign via the Steele Dossier and the majority of the press and pollsters who tried to prop her up.
 
AnalogPackrat said:
From the Wikipedia article:



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mueller_report
I've seen nothing that convinces me that any attempt by Russia to influence recent elections had any meaningful effect. Hillary was not a likable candidate and her own actions and statements tanked her campaign. If anyone is guilty of conspiring to interfere it is her own campaign via the Steele Dossier and the majority of the press and pollsters who tried to prop her up.
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There definitely wasn’t any coordinated effort, but there were certainly compromised people in Trump’s campaign, directly connected to some not-so-good players in Russia. Their actions were criminal. Also, I think Comey’s non-protocol announcements did the most damage to Hillary’s campaign.
 
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JohnRoberts said:
polling data? and what is this supposed to mean, besides that Manafort was a lousy employee?
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Since when does lousy employee equal convicted criminal? Manafort may be both, but you’re completely dismissing one of those with that sentence. Manafort and Gates are straight-up serial-criminals. Why did Trump pardon Manafort if he was just a lousy employee? Must have been an exceptional employee!
 
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Recording Engineer said:
There definitely wasn’t any coordinated effort, but there were certainly compromised people in Trump’s campaign, directly connected to some not-so-good players in Russia. Their actions were criminal. Also, I think Comey’s non-protocol announcements did the most damage to Hillary’s campaign.
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And no other campaign had so-called compromised people with ulterior motives and connections to external influence?

Back to the topic, which is the Durham report. Clearly our FBI has been seriously compromised and politicized. Trusting them to self-regulate is farcical.
 
hodad said:
Whataboutism much?


YES!!! FAR TOO MANY INSANE RIGHT-WINGERS IN THE FBI!!!! THIS HAS GOT TO CHANGE!!!!!!!!!
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Those who live in glass houses….
I get it, you don’t look at your own party and if you do, you feel they are infallible.
They are not.
As for the report while it did not lead to specific arrests or indictments, it paints a not so great picture of what the fbi has been doing based on hearsay and less then credible evidence such as the trump pee tape as well as what it has been doing with real evidence such as hunters laptop.
Clearly this American institution of law enforcement is not squeaky clean as they were yesteryear
 
hodad said:
Whataboutism much?
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Predictable and meaningless response to exposure of your double standard. Yawn.

hodad said:
YES!!! FAR TOO MANY INSANE RIGHT-WINGERS IN THE FBI!!!! THIS HAS GOT TO CHANGE!!!!!!!!!
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I see some insanity, but it isn't "right-wingers in the FBI." If they're so right-wing why are they only after Trump and not Biden?
 
AnalogPackrat said:
Predictable and meaningless response to exposure of your double standard. Yawn
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Don't make weak arguments and maybe you'll get a more meaningful response. But don't expect me to treat fallacious folderol like it's a cleverly crafted and insightful argument.
 

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