Durham's Bull

[Recording Engineer]

I did not specify politics in my question.

No you did not. But you’re asking that question in the middle of political-discussions. How else am I to answer? Why would I think otherwise?

 

[JohnRoberts]

I was speaking as anyone. So, it’s whatever side anyone wants to be on.

That explains the difficulty in understanding some of your posts

… As far as we know…

Remember, the left can play conspiracy-theory just as well as the right! However, from this fence , to right seems to be winning that game. After all, they do hold the lion’s share of the 24-hour “news” on radio and tv (at least); if not other medias as well (?).

There are some conservative radio programs but in general the mass media is dominated by liberal perspective. Fox is a fairly successful example of a network that leans right, but generally tries to present both sides.

Nope. Not when it comes to politics...And that is EXACTLY what we’re discussing. Do you believe in the system enough to think you’re not being played in the political game? NOTHING in politics is as black and white or as concrete as what most people make things out to be. This is why I say the best I can do is let it play out in court.

As we see attacks to discredit the courts increasing...

How’s that for believing in something? Even then, we all have our biases. It’s best to be highly-aware of your own and question them regularly. However, nowadays, it seems most people are either way too arrogant or too low of self-confidence that they over-compensate. Either way, it seems to manifest in extremeness and they refuse to look in the mirror to see it.

I have told this story so many times I am getting tired of it... back in the 70s when news papers were the dominant authoritative news sources, I subscribed to 1 years each of three different news papers. This revealed bias in each, and in me . We are all informed by our life experiences, some people here clearly have different life experiences than others.

JR

 

[Recording Engineer]

Do courts set your personal moral compass or your core beliefs?


Of course. But if you have no grounding beliefs at all you're just a leaf blowing in the wind, soon to be compost.

Who’s to say I don’t have any? Or you? Or anyone else? Are we making lists and sticking to them? What are you really saying? Because I’m middle-ground, a fence-sitter, since I see both sides to most-everything, that I have no personal belief-system or moral compass?

 

[Matador]

What are you really saying? Because I’m middle-ground, a fence-sitter, since I see both sides to most-everything, that I have no personal belief-system or moral compass?

 

[Recording Engineer]

That explains the difficulty in understanding some of your posts

Sorry all. I truly thought I was being extremely-obvious. Clearly I was wrong.

There are some conservative radio programs but in general the mass media is dominated by liberal perspective.

I was speaking of talk-radio specifically. Clearly that’s mostly conservative?

Fox is a fairly successful example of a network that leans right, but generally tries to present both sides.

Let me know when they have ANY left-extremist talking-head show to match their right-extremist ones and I’ll go along with that notion.

I know, you’re speaking journalism-shows and not opinion-shows and that they try to keep them separate. Clearly, the Dominion case and other pending litigation proves they cannot/ do not keep them separate. I still think my marriage-analogy still holds-up too.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Sorry all. I truly thought I was being extremely-obvious. Clearly I was wrong.

I was speaking of talk-radio specifically. Clearly that’s mostly conservative?

talk radio is just one news source. I suspect that it appeals to working class people who listen while working. I don't listen to radio.

Let me know when they have ANY left-extremist talking-head show to match their right-extremist ones and I’ll go along with that notion.

Fox has news people and opinion people. Their opinion people are mostly conservative (I hear, I don't usually watch the pure opinion shows). Fox has numerous liberal news analysts (like Jessica Tarlov, and Harold Ford Jr.) around for balance on shows like the Five, but they are not what I would call extremists and often in the minority when on panels.

Fox even has a one hour weekly news show MediaBuzz (on weekends) that reviews all media for notable examples of news being the news.

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Sorry all. I truly thought I was being extremely-obvious. Clearly I was wrong.

Not clear at all.

I was speaking of talk-radio specifically. Clearly that’s mostly conservative?

NPR has at least as much reach, does it not? And I remember Air America (Al Franken, et. al.) during the W years. Certainly there are no barriers to leftwing talk radio.

Let me know when they have ANY left-extremist talking-head show to match their right-extremist ones and I’ll go along with that notion.

Does MSNBC have any right-extremist shows to balance their lean (which seems much more extreme than FNC)? Does CNN have anything right-leaning? What about the major networks that air garbage like The View? Why do you single out the one right-of-center outlet and not apply the same standard to all?

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Who’s to say I don’t have any?

You haven't gotten off the fence.

Or you?

I've stated many times what my views are and how they have changed as I've matured through experiences and observations. I have beliefs that I can and will stand up for.

Or anyone else?

Many others in this discussion have made some of their core beliefs plain to see as well.

Are we making lists and sticking to them?

Change is part of growth, so, no.

What are you really saying? Because I’m middle-ground, a fence-sitter, since I see both sides to most-everything, that I have no personal belief-system or moral compass?

A line (the fence) has no area. It's a place of indecision. You apparently can't or won't make any value judgements about important issues. I find that very odd.

I can also see both sides of many issues and judge what I think is right, wrong, or not important. There are some issues where I've not decided what I think or where my opinion is changing as I see new information. I do think there are some very important things. That is to say, some things matter enough for me to take sides.

 

[Recording Engineer]

NPR has at least as much reach, does it not? And I remember Air America (Al Franken, et. al.) during the W years. Certainly there are no barriers to leftwing talk radio.

Since Limbaugh, conservative talk-radio has ALWAYS had the lion’s share in the US. That is my point. Am I wrong? I don’t think so, but I’m open to be proven wrong.

I’m sure NPR has reach, but strictly from a business perspective, if I was ever to get into 24-hour talk-radio, who am I going to target? I’d go with whatever the larger-majority is in that market.

My local station, here in extremely-liberal CA (only 24-hour talk-radio station in the region), is extremely-conservative with no liberal shows and only has reasonable and balanced journalism during commute hours. I suspect it’s the same throughout the majority of the nation.

Does MSNBC have any right-extremist shows to balance their lean (which seems much more extreme than FNC)? Does CNN have anything right-leaning? What about the major networks that air garbage like The View? Why do you single out the one right-of-center outlet and not apply the same standard to all?

John brought up FOX specifically. THAT is very-specifically what I was responding to and absolutely nothing else. No need to bring anyone else up.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Since Limbaugh,

RIP

conservative talk-radio has ALWAYS had the lion’s share in the US.

Lion's share of what? AM radio? Where is Howard Stern on that list, is he conservative?

That is my point. Am I wrong? I don’t think so, but I’m open to be proven wrong.

it's hard to find good data (without using google ). Nowadays isn't everything podcasts or streaming, or some new age medium?

I’m sure NPR has reach, but strictly from a business perspective, if I was ever to get into 24-hour talk-radio, who am I going to target? I’d go with whatever the larger-majority is in that market.

An old friend of mine (definitely not conservative), was all excited about an opportunity to co host a radio talk show out of NYC. I suspect there are more than enough liberals in NYC, but I haven't heard this mentioned for some time so I suspect his program failed.

OK I went back and checked. The name of his radio show was "Left turn with Rob and Ethan" and they had a 5:30PM spot with 710 WOR (big AM station in NYC) . I found about a half dozen podcasts from 2022 preserved on the WWW so it looks like his radio broadcast career lasted about 2 months.

My local station, here in extremely-liberal CA (only 24-hour talk-radio station in the region), is extremely-conservative with no liberal shows and only has reasonable and balanced journalism during commute hours. I suspect it’s the same throughout the majority of the nation.

John brought up FOX specifically. THAT is very-specifically what I was responding to and absolutely nothing else. No need to bring anyone else up.

I watch too much fox, just like I read too much wall street journal, and books. There are other stations even more obsessively right leaning, so much so that I can't watch them.

JR

 

[hodad]

There are some conservative radio programs but in general the mass media is dominated by liberal perspective

As I have noted before, most large media corporations are dominated by a corporate perspective. It's more about what's good for business than anything--liberal and conservative are far less important than $$$$$. I have plenty of beef with NYT and WaPo and others from my left-leaning perspective--don't delude yourself that conservatives are the only ones who find fault with them.
And, oh, by the way, CNN is tilting ever more rightwards these days, which would leave not a single centrist cable news network, and only one that tilts leftward. So how is it that you see mass media dominated by a liberal perspective again?

 

[JohnRoberts]

As I have noted before, most large media corporations are dominated by a corporate perspective. It's more about what's good for business than anything--liberal and conservative are far less important than $$$$$.

It is interesting how bud light and miller lite's woke pivots are costing them sales (Bud sales are down something like 20%).

Johnny Beer remains unchanged.

I have plenty of beef with NYT and WaPo and others from my left-leaning perspective--don't delude yourself that conservatives are the only ones who find fault with them.

I am not surprised.

And, oh, by the way, CNN is tilting ever more rightwards these days, which would leave not a single centrist cable news network, and only one that tilts leftward.

CNN are trying to tilt toward the center to address a larger audience. I can't say that I care, but they sure irritated their old base.

So how is it that you see mass media dominated by a liberal perspective again?

Because the young people running those networks are left leaning liberal/progressives thanks to modern college education.

JR

 

[hodad]

modern college education.

Did I ever tell you about the fake handwritten letter my grandfather got from YAF or some other right-leaning youth-ish group? They said that all the kids were being corrupted by the Communist college professors--Commies were everywhere on college campuses. Now, my mother was a college professor (now retired), and when she heard all this, she asked my grandfather, "Well, what about me? I'm not a communist." He muttered and stammered something, and basically went on believing the garbage in the stupid mass mailing. My grandfather was at that point almost 70 years removed from his brief stint in college, and had absolutely no idea what was happening on college campuses. He had a daughter-in-law who was a professor who wasn't a commie, who spent great quantities of time on college campuses and said the letter was bunk. But he still went on believing what he was told to believe by some crappy little fundraising letter from a crappy little organization.

Does that sound like anybody you might know?

 

[JohnRoberts]

no

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Since Limbaugh, conservative talk-radio has ALWAYS had the lion’s share in the US. That is my point. Am I wrong? I don’t think so, but I’m open to be proven wrong.

From what I can find, commercial (non-NPR) talk radio has about 50M listeners. 80-90% is conservative leaning. But read on.

I’m sure NPR has reach, but strictly from a business perspective, if I was ever to get into 24-hour talk-radio, who am I going to target? I’d go with whatever the larger-majority is in that market.

https://www.nationalpublicmedia.com/audience/
I think that says a lot and anyone who denies the leftward bias of NPR is blind. 46M listeners and the top two shows during prime commute hours balances the AM radio equation.

My local station, here in extremely-liberal CA (only 24-hour talk-radio station in the region), is extremely-conservative with no liberal shows and only has reasonable and balanced journalism during commute hours. I suspect it’s the same throughout the majority of the nation.

I'm sure you have NPR.

John brought up FOX specifically. THAT is very-specifically what I was responding to and absolutely nothing else. No need to bring anyone else up.

I can bring up what I want. It's relevant to point out that your complaint about FNC applies to the other side as well, whether you acknowledge it or not.

 

[Recording Engineer]

RIP

Lion's share of what? AM radio? Where is Howard Stern on that list, is he conservative?

Lion’s share of radio-wave talk-radio overall. Howard Stern I’m sure was (is?) just as big in his own market, but he’s just one of (a big one) them all; in what I’m referring to.

it's hard to find good data (without using google ).

Agreed. It is hard.

Nowadays isn't everything podcasts or streaming, or some new age medium?

That’s the part I don’t know about, at all. I’ve never streamed any radio whatsoever or listened to any podcast, ever, so I’m personally completely out of touch there.

 

[Recording Engineer]

I think that says a lot and anyone who denies the leftward bias of NPR is blind.

I’ve denied jack about NPR. You’re probably right. But I personally wouldn’t know at all. I have never ever listened to it, even once, so…

I'm sure you have NPR.

Yes, Sac State owns Capital Public Radio and broadcasts NPR, along with 3-other national-programmings, a tiny tiny bit of very-short local programs, music, etc. It has limited range. I do not pick it up. Their sister-stations are 100% music for jazz and classical. I can pick that up, but again, have never listened to it.

I can bring up what I want. It's relevant to point out that your complaint about FNC applies to the other side as well, whether you acknowledge it or not.

I acknowledge it for sure. However, you replied to my reply, all of which was about FOX, but you never spoke a single thing about FOX. Instead, you went right past it and attacked other entities. At least do both.

 

[Recording Engineer]

You haven't gotten off the fence.

Not true.

A line (the fence) has no area. It's a place of indecision. You apparently can't or won't make any value judgements about important issues. I find that very odd.

You can find that odd all day long. It’s ok. It’s also not true though.

I do think there are some very important things. That is to say, some things matter enough for me to take sides.

As do I. I’m just not out here or anywhere blabbing my mouth away about it all and parroting whatever I heard on my favorite political-entertainment show(s). It’s all WAY more Fing complicated than ANY of them present; for money, ratings, attention, or anything else! THAT’S the reality! I don’t have time to give a dissertation on any of it!

 

[AnalogPackrat]

I’ve denied jack about NPR.

Never said you did. I said "anyone."

You’re probably right. But I personally wouldn’t know at all. I have never ever listened to it, even once, so…

Whether you listen or not does not change the fact that NPR leans left, has a very large audience, and has the top 2 t AM talk radio shows.

Yes, Sac State owns Capital Public Radio and broadcasts NPR, along with 3-other national-programmings, a tiny tiny bit of very-short local programs, music, etc. It has limited range. I do not pick it up. Their sister-stations are 100% music for jazz and classical. I can pick that up, but again, have never listened to it.

Doesn't change the fact that NPR is as widely available as commercial talk radio.

I acknowledge it for sure. However, you replied to my reply, all of which was about FOX, but you never spoke a single thing about FOX.

What's to say? FNC leans right and always has. But in recent years it has also been more neutral in news reporting (e.g. Brett Baier and Chris Wallace until he blew it in 2020).

Instead, you went right past it and attacked other entities. At least do both.

I didn't attack anything. I pointed out the fact that the same standard applied to other outlets reveals the opposite bias. Your logic is broken.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Not true.

You can find that odd all day long. It’s ok. It’s also not true though.

No evidence has been seen.

As do I. I’m just not out here or anywhere blabbing my mouth away about it all and parroting whatever I heard on my favorite political-entertainment show(s).

Why are you participating in these discussions at all if you aren't going to stand up and explain your position and the rationale behind it? Your gross mischaracterization of others is just another deflection wrapped in a not very subtle ad hominem.

It’s all WAY more Fing complicated than ANY of them present;

For some things, yes. Other things are quite simple and apparent (the need for freedom of expression, privacy, self defense, presumption of innocence, and the other fundamental rights of free people).

for money, ratings, attention, or anything else! THAT’S the reality! I don’t have time to give a dissertation on any of it!

You've had time to write a lot and say very little, in my opinion.