hodad said:
JohnRoberts said:
I made a gross simplification... The key distinction in my mind is that parents choose to send their kids to a charter school, not that they are assigned to a school based on where they live and have no choice. These charter schools are not run by the same educators and survive or fail based on pleasing their customers (the parents and children). The voucher program allows parents to apply the funds to the generally more expensive private schools with the parents making up the difference.
This is closer, but doesn't take into account pre-existing schools that become charters, or even (as in the case of Decatur, Ga.) an entire school district that goes charter.
If the wiki link that I posted is incomplete, tell them,, I do not know that much about the details, I tried to deal in broad strokes, to explain the reference to a free market economist.
That's an interesting complaint... If a private business does a better job than public schools I would not mind... I do not mind the Korean teacher making $6M a year... I mind when children do not get a good education. I am open for all suggestions except, just throw more money at them and expect it to be different this time. Hopefully the competition will induce the public schools to raise their game.
The educational-industrial complex already has its fingers in public schools, be they charter or otherwise. There are the textbooks and programs that get adopted and replaced on a regular basis, and there are the for-profit charter school corporations. There are those who promote the idea that any monkey with a scripted learning program can be a successful teacher--devaluing the teacher while simultaneously promoting their product. I can tell you from experience with my own son that these programs do not a good teacher (or educated student) make. My wife & I spend a fair chunk of time compensating for the deficiencies of the scripted math program my son's school uses.
I don't recall saying anything about monkeys. They'd have to be well trained... computer media is cheaper and better behaved. I fear it is teachers devaluing themselves by not delivering the "product" (educated kids).
I recall being experimented on with the "new math" back in the 50-60's by my senior year we ran out of the "new" program classes and I ended up with two hours of study hall... code for "sorry we don't have enough new improved courses for you".
The thing that would help education most in this country is good teachers who are both allowed and challenged to teach well. The burdens put upon them by the "deciders" (teaching to the test, scripted programs that stifle teachers as well as students, poorly designed curricula, etc. etc.) thwart the educational process and get in the way of actual learning.
I am not sure exactly what change you are suggesting. Rewarding good teachers and moving bad teachers into the appropriate fast food industry is high on my list too but there is a lot of push back from the teachers union. I recall reading recently about a big stink, when they stopped automatically giving teachers a raise for earning a masters degree... turned out a study found that the extra degree didn't correlate with better teaching results (oops). It was mainly an institutionalized way for them to pad their pay checks. Perhaps a good concept if master degrees actually made them better teachers, not just more expensive teachers.
If there was too much "teaching to the test", I'd expect the students to ace the tests (they don't, except for the thankfully modest number of cases when the teachers change the wrong answers). I guess they can't even teach to the test successfully. Note: there have always been some form of standardized testing and some degree of teaching in anticipation of future tests on a standard curriculum (LSATS etc)..
On a different note: I was a little stunned the other day as I listened to my son's teachers explain the curriculum for this year, and it dawned on me that basically everything they do is "teaching to the test," which used to be only what the "bad" schools did and now is pretty much de rigeur. (I can understand why, because the state standards can be very peculiar and particular.) I would have missed out on so much in school had my teachers been constricted this way.
I guess I was lucky too that I got a pretty solid basic education before I tuned in, turned on, and dropped out... I failed calculus in my senior year of HS, and would love to blame the new math for poor preparation, but the fact that I spent more time studying the girls gym class outside the window than the blackboard had something to do with it.
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I still remember my calculus teacher taking me aside near the end of the school year and asking me what I was going to do with my life now after failing his class.. I don't know, suicide? Nah... I muddled through despite my early failures. In fact I've failed many times, and probably will again.
I suspect the poor teachers these days are getting all tangled up in the new "common core" curriculum getting rolled out... Hard to teach to the test if they don't have the new answer sheet yet.
I do not deny that there are intangible touchy-feely aspects of teaching... I recall being able to tell if the teacher had genuine enthusiasm for the subject (I remember one inspirational HS physics teacher, and one ski bum college physics professor who was a waste of protoplasm). Then there's all the rest between those extremes.
In my vision we need to bottle the 1% of truly inspirational teachers, and we don't need to saddle anybody with rote lecturing. If it is boring to the teachers imagine how the students feel. Good text books for basic subjects that haven't changed for a hundred years do not need to be re-written every couple years. That is just a money making scam, and I am willing to speculate that most of the changes are not even making them better, just making them different enough to earn a big payday for some parasite(s).
I do not see us replacing all the teacher's with disney animatrons, but if i had kids of school age i would definitely consider home schooling and investigate modern technology options. At a minimum I would check out the public school options and local teachers.
Just like the quality of products is better with machine assembly, some degree of standardization and modern technology could probably improve the school day for both students and teachers. If you want to let the teachers go free-form maybe they can do that in art class, (after they cover the masters). I guess they could justify updating modern art text books. 8)
JR