Ela-M 251 Body from Aliexpress

[Mikael-ange]

I'm really a novice in this game compared to some of your guys posting here. And keep also in mind I'm kinda ocd so maybe I doing thing that doesn't matter.
Having said that, and having done so test for myself. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I found that polarization voltage can after a capsule sound in a good or a bad way.
Maybe that just me or my ocd, but for every test I did on my c12 clone, I always calibrated everything the same (b+, bias and heater).
That for the capsule part. Now for the glassy sound Paul hear, out of spec polarization or some outpout cap type can affect that also imho.
Could be all wrong but that what I found doing some test with polarization and various cap test.

 

[kingkorg]

I'm really a novice in this game compared to some of your guys posting here. And keep also in mind I'm kinda ocd so maybe I doing thing that doesn't matter.
Having said that, and having done so test for myself. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I found that polarization voltage can after a capsule sound in a good or a bad way.
Maybe that just me or my ocd, but for every test I did on my c12 clone, I always calibrated everything the same (b+, bias and heater).
That for the capsule part. Now for the glassy sound Paul hear, out of spec polarization or some outpout cap type can affect that also imho.
Could be all wrong but that what I found doing some test with polarization and various cap test.

CK12 is also extremely picky in how the multipattern voltage is applied. It is extremely easy to think you are in say cardioid while being in who knows what pattern. It is VERY important that there is discharge path so that no residual voltage remains after changing pattern.

Topologies where front is at 0V and back diaphragm and backplates are at 60v coming from two different branches is my least favorite.

I like CK12 best at 40v, not for some metaphysical reason, simply because there's less attraction going on. If i could i'd polarize them with 10v.

 

[Khron]

Topologies where front is at 0V and back diaphragm and backplates are at 60v coming from two different branches is my least favorite.

How do you mean? Backplate divider fixed inside the mic, and rear voltage coming from another source?

 

[kingkorg]

How do you mean? Backplate divider fixed inside the mic, and rear voltage coming from another source?

Yeah, kinda Apex thing.

 

[Khron]

In solid-state or tube circuits?

 

[Mikael-ange]

CK12 is also extremely picky in how the multipattern voltage is applied. It is extremely easy to think you are in say cardioid while being in who knows what pattern. It is VERY important that there is discharge path so that no residual voltage remains after changing pattern.

Topologies where front is at 0V and back diaphragm and backplates are at 60v coming from two different branches is my least favorite.

I like CK12 best at 40v, not for some metaphysical reason, simply because there's less attraction going on. If i could i'd polarize them with 10v.

Make sense so thanks for that explanation

 

[soliloqueen]

I wonder how the ck-12 would behave in an RF circuit

 

[Tim Campbell]

I wonder how the ck-12 would behave in an RF circuit

I have tried this. That capsule sounds good so of course it sounds good in that circuit. Luckily I could just build one to the right capacitance. That said I liked my push/pull capsule better because it is more linear.

 

[Tim Campbell]

A little hint for you kingkorg about your push/pull capsule. This is multipattern and has 4 backplates and 2 membranes

 

[kingkorg]

A little hint for you kingkorg about your push/pull capsule. This is multipattern and has 4 backplates and 2 membranes

Insane!

 

[Delta Sigma]

I'm really a novice in this game compared to some of your guys posting here. And keep also in mind I'm kinda ocd so maybe I doing thing that doesn't matter.
Having said that, and having done so test for myself. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I found that polarization voltage can after a capsule sound in a good or a bad way.
Maybe that just me or my ocd, but for every test I did on my c12 clone, I always calibrated everything the same (b+, bias and heater).
That for the capsule part. Now for the glassy sound Paul hear, out of spec polarization or some outpout cap type can affect that also imho.
Could be all wrong but that what I found doing some test with polarization and various cap test.

After reading a post from Tim, saying he preferred a 55V capsule bias on his capsules, I gave it a try in my C12s. I tried both lowering the B+ and only changing the backplate bias (altering the patterns slightly) and I preferred 55V over 60V. I didn't hear much of a difference between the methods of lowering to 55V, so I lowered my B+.

 

[Mikael-ange]

After reading a post from Tim, saying he preferred a 55V capsule bias on his capsules, I gave it a try in my C12s. I tried both lowering the B+ and only changing the backplate bias (altering the patterns slightly) and I preferred 55V over 60V. I didn't hear much of a difference between the methods of lowering to 55V, so I lowered my B+.

That good to know.
I ran into a kinda different scenario (that why I took notice about it) during a session. A friend let me borrow his c12 for a try, but it endend up not sounding really good.
After a quick check, b+ had drifted and polarization was around 67v and he never checked it.

Btw how often do you guys check for b+, bias and heater on your mic?
I try to do it every 40hours of use. Maybe that to low or to high?

 

[Delta Sigma]

I would check often after making any change that would affect a DC or bias supply. After it's settled, it probably doesn't need to be checked often at all. I work in Telecom for a power company. We used to perform preventative maintenance on our SCADA (stations control) devices often. It was found that most failures happened after PM. All PM was suspended, and now we wait for failures.

With that logic, I wonder if being too obsessed with adjustments might create problems. In other words: measure, adjust, measure, adjust, wait, measure, adjust. Once it's set up, measure every now and then, but don't adjust for a small percentage change; no matter how tempting it is.

Now, watch me never take my own advice and over tweak...

 

[mics]

We all have our favourites. Mine is actually 48V (no not phantom power!!!!)! in all of the testing that we have completed, to us, 48v has just the right bias point to allow the capsule to perform properly, but they can get noisy if the capacitance is on the low side. for the BC12a tube, we use 55V, for the fet version, of course, we use 48v.

 

[kingkorg]

We all have our favourites. Mine is actually 48V (no not phantom power!!!!)! in all of the testing that we have completed, to us, 48v has just the right bias point to allow the capsule to perform properly, but they can get noisy if the capacitance is on the low side. for the BC12a tube, we use 55V, for the fet version, of course, we use 48v.

Interestingly once i offered you both in PM. and here to send me one of your prime capsule examples for a review and measurements, you stopped replying to me. What's the catch? Do i have to buy one?

 

[kingkorg]

You are wellcome to send a capsule to me for measuring, i will do it free of charge and post all my findings. Same thing i did with Soliloqueen's capsules, no one ever complained.
I have no horse in this race, i don't make any money from my presence here. I will return the capsule back. I just expect all the shipping and import duties to be covered. As i said before, i'm not sharing my detailed findings on the two i have here, and my goal is not to hurt the company.

This would hopefully solve the mess we created here.

@mics

 

[Tim Campbell]

Well I also agree that lower polarization voltages can sound good for the CK12. One of my favorites is to put one of my capsules in an AKG 414EB P48

 

[mics]

Interestingly once i offered you both in PM. and here to send me one of your prime capsule examples for a review and measurements, you stopped replying to me. What's the catch? Do i have to buy one?

Hi again.

Not ignoring you, just choosing to enjoy my weekend and spend time with my wife and kids. In this business, it is important to keep a work life balance.

It is tempting to send you a capsule but at the same time, I’m still undecided as we have sold 1000’s of these and have less than a handful of complaints. We’re not a newby here and don’t particularly feel the need to prove anything.

I may send you our new AL version for you to peruse but it will be a sealed capsule and not able to be opened or split. This is done so that the tolerance can be maintained through the life of the capsule.

I have a few very busy months ahead and we are already on the road heading toward NAMM with many stops along the way. Once that is all said and done, I’ll make an effort to send you something.

Thanks. So nice talking with you again.

 

[OPR]

Same here for positive experiences with lower polarization voltages on Ck12 capsules, quality K67/87 types can also benefit think about the U87 AI vs the u87i vintage circuit particularly the 60 vs 46v polarization. Simply put lower polarization voltages in a "quality capsules" will free up diaphragm movement allowing the capsule to sense and translate additional dynamics,resolution and detail but at the expense of a signal to noise.

 

[k brown]

It does seem like both mfgrs and users have gotten caught up in a S/N numbers game, when in most real-world usage, only the worst offenders are actually audible.

Reminds one of the THD obsession in the HiFi world; when fractions of a percentage one way or the other are discussed endlessly, when relatively large percentages are very difficult to hear. In a lot of cases, the order of the harmonics (2nd or 3rd, etc.) is more important then the actual levels.