EMI RS124

[Jean Clochet]

I love that song Hey jude and the vocal recording it self... Dave or anyone do you what they used on vocals at the time Hey Jude was recorded.....as I switch the soldering iron on .....

I think that Hey Jude was one of the few songs that wasn't actually recorded at Abbey Road.  I believe it was @ Trident Studios.

I don't know what gear they had at Trident but the vocal always sounded different on this track than on other tracks to me.  Abbey Road used the F'Child 660 on vox but Hey Jude sounds like a slower unit such as an LA-2A or Altec type vari-mu. 

Dave, I understand from chatting with a few folks that the RS124 was used on quite a bit more stuff than guitar.  Generally, anything that has a gentler compression rather than the faster limiting of the Fairchild.  From 1964 on, a pair of RS124's were always strapped across two of the four desk outputs with a pair of 660's across the other two outs. 
You can hear it on guitar, bass guitar and piano quite clearly anyway, as well as other overdubs from later years.
And of course, every single mix/reduction went through the RS124 (or a pair of them for the stereo mixes**) rather than the Fairchild.  According to Ken Scott, the meter was sometimes pegged all the way down @ max compression throughout the whole song!  My experience with them is that they sound great that way too on some stuff.

I used to own an RS124 but it was a unit that had been sent from EMI Hayes to France's Pathé studios.  It had some of the early Abbey Road modifications but had been subsequently modified by Pathé with other modifications too.



** It's a bit strange really to think that the stereo mixes were afterthoughts and done quickly without much attention when those are what we mostly listen to now! 

 

[lassoharp]

I  absolutely love this little compressor for vocals more so than LA2As I have built

This is an interesting comment gary o.  Would you mind giving us your description of what the 436 does that the LA2A doesn't do on a vocal.

Thanks

 

[lassoharp]

It's a bit strange really to think that the stereo mixes were afterthoughts and done quickly without much attention when those are what we mostly listen to now! 

Their seems to be a current craze for the mono mixes of  Beatles material. 

 

[Jean Clochet]

Their seems to be a current craze for the mono mixes of  Beatles material. 

Really?  I don't keep up I guess.  Beatles'/Apple's had enough money off me already over the years anyway!!  ;D 
I had original mono Parlophone pressings of Rubber Soul, Revolver and Pepper that I transferred to CD and would listen to.  Lots of subtle stuff on Pepper mono that got skipped on the stereo mix.

 

[tomas1808]

Wow thanks for compliments chaps....... Im not really a Beatles fan but I love that song Hey jude and the vocal recording it self... Dave or anyone do you what they used on vocals at the time Hey Jude was recorded.....as I switch the soldering iron on .....

Whoa! Awesome singing.

It was indeed recorded at Trident, if I recall correctly. This turned out to be a problem later. Trident had modern Tannoy speakers that gave much more hi-frequency content than EMI's Altecs. This meant that when the recording was played back at EMI it sounded awfully dull and veiled. Geoff Emerick had to EQ the hell out of it to restore those frequencies resulting in that "artificial" sound.

You can hear a constant hiss or ringing at 10KHz on Pauls singing, most probably due the heavy EQing:

http://soundcloud.com/tomas1808/jude-hiss


BTW what's inside that U47? Sounds lovely!

 

[Jean Clochet]

It was indeed recorded at Trident, if I recall correctly. This turned out to be a problem later.

Thanks for the clarification, the low down on the re-eq'ing and the sound file post.
Appreciated.

I guess Gary still doesn't know what comp was used on Paul's vox... 

 

[gary o]

Interesting story about the recording so they mixed it a little dull sounding due to brighter monitors speakers & then brightened it up again listening thru less bright speakers, have I got that right, I hear a little sibilance thru my pc (Ssad SSong & make it better) when I play Mp3 version, but I like that vocal within that song better than other beatles tracks tho I havent really studied them artificial or not it sounds very modern to me...

Jean Pathe mods ????? what are they ? schematics ? soldering iron still hot RS124 spralled across my desk....

Thomas1808 thanks for compliment, & the U47 is Maxes MK47 kit, skylar body, capsule from a Violet VK67 lollypop, capsule is meant to sound like a U67 with a flat mic circuit havent got real 67 to compare but they sell for a lot of money, I think....

Lasso I have 2 DIY LA2As that I build years ago one carbon resistors one metal film they both dont have real T4bs sadly......so dont no if its a fair fight ....hard to discribe sound but the LAs sound more obvious I guess & a little less detailed, you may prefer that....the (IC) LA4A sound similar but even less detailed .....But for me & my voice I prefer my vari mus BA6A & now RS124......every now and then I have a compressor off I might do another short video just for bit of fun.

All the best

 

[Jean Clochet]

Jean Pathe mods ????? what are they ? schematics ? soldering iron still hot RS124 spralled across my desk....

My unit had the early mods done on all EMI units including the hold etc.    But most RS124 units got modified more over time - shorter attack/release, feedback to reduce thumps and gain and the neon lamp for balancing the valve.

My unit didn't have the neon and had a couple of different value caps.  Stuff that EMI France came up with.
I think the schematic posted on here is the better way to do it, like you've done.  It has all the mods done for Abbey Road RS124s.

I've also seen pictures of some RS124s that were sent to other another country (not sure where) and they had the Hold circuit and output attenuator removed and little metal plates put over the holes with engraving for some other stuff.  These units were also modifed from Altec 436 C's, rather than B's, you could see the holes underneath the meter where the Altec threshold etc. had been.  I might still have a picture or two - I'll look.**
Anyway, I guess it was easier to come up with some of the mods they wanted themselves rather than send the unit back to Hayes, UK?



**Edit:  One pic attached

 

[Jean Clochet]

Another pic attached.

You can see the painted 436C screws under the meter and also the "Compressor Type RS124" engraving is below the meter rather than on the lefthand side.

These are real RS124s, just not ones that were sent to Abbey Road. 

Edit:  Just to clarify, these pictures aren't of my EMI France unit, I would need to do some serious digging around to find one of those.

 

[letterbeacon]

Great video Gary -makes me want some jelly babies!

How close to 'that sound' is it possible to get with the Sowter trannies over the original Altecs?  I'm tempted to try and track down the original trannies...

 

[MagnetoSound]

 

[DaveP]

Dan,
What are you on!
Time for your injection, me thinks. :

I've just looked up in me Recording the Beatles book and it says Ken Scott used the UTC curve bender to correct the fact that Trident's monitors were brighter than Abbey road's on  Hey Jude.

best
DaveP

 

[gary o]

Jean thanks for info & pics brilliant.....

I met Tom Baker Dr Who twice once he came to our school with a darlick......& then at Granada studios when I was on stars in their eyes dont laugh :-[

Letter what sound you after the Hey Jude sound or Abbey rd sound.....& didnt EMI change from Altec transformers I think Winston tell us early in this thread.....

Great detective work DaveP...............Is a curve bender a EQ unit....

 

[Jean Clochet]

Dan,
What are you on!
Time for your injection, me thinks.

Dave, what ya talkin''bout?  His post makes pefect sense to the rest of us!

Great video Gary -makes me want some jelly babies!

And, as all sane and rational folks such as us know, Tom Baker's Dr Who liked Jelly Babies. 

Gary, is your Granada T.V. spot on Youtube by any chance? 

 

[letterbeacon]

& then at Granada studios when I was on stars in their eyes dont laugh :-[

This is the best thing I've read on here, ever.  Who were you??

Letter what sound you after the Hey Jude sound or Abbey rd sound.....& didnt EMI change from Altec transformers I think Winston tell us early in this thread....

I thought the Altec transformer and the meter were the only things remaining of the original Altecs.  Hmmmm, can't remember where I read that though.

 

[tomas1808]

I've just looked up in me Recording the Beatles book and it says Ken Scott used the UTC curve bender to correct the fact that Trident's monitors were brighter than Abbey road's on  Hey Jude.

Whoa, I literally came back to this thread to correct myself after checking both "Recording The Beatles" and Geoffs "Here, There and Everywhere" but you beat me to it 
It was indeed Ken Scott who operated the Curve Bender. 

Geoffs book, however, says that he was right there with Ken when this happened. A doubtful Ken asked Geoff for approval on the EQing. In the end it says that they managed to get good results, so who knows. 

 

[DaveP]

Ah Ha,

My Dr Who was William Hartnell, so it's a generation thing!  I'm obviously culturally excluded. ;D

To match the EMI 200 ohm system they used  200 ohm pads with the original transformers, this was covered earlier on.

The Curve Bender is a massive EQ along the lines of an industrial Pultec.  They made three trial versions (Hey Jude) then chose the best.

best
DaveP

 

[Jean Clochet]

I thought the Altec transformer and the meter were the only things remaining of the original Altecs.  Hmmmm, can't remember where I read that though.

From earlier in this thread is this:

BTW, I never said that the only thing an Altec and an RS124 have in common is the chassis and the transformers.  Someone else said that.  I HAVE said that, on the better conversions I did, I replaced everything but the chassis and the transformers.  In other words, new wire, R's, C's, everything.  There's a difference in that statement. 

My French RS124 had a different power transformer but  original Altec audio transformers.

P.S.  Dave, no worries    Although I wouldn't have placed you in William Hartnell's dimensional timestream.  Thought you might have been closer to mine which was Troughton/Pertwee.

 

[DaveP]

I started modernising my first house in 72 and did not have a TV, that's obviously the cause of the problem! :-[

Enough of this nonsense, I'm off to do some serious metal bashing for the chassis of the Bridge Compressor!

best
DaveP

 

[MagnetoSound]

Hah! ... just goes to show, you can't count on anything round these parts!  ;D