[FEELER] C12 Clone Project

[mrcase]

Interested in One!

 

[flaheu]

interested in one depending on price. 

 

[micaddict]

I'm already on Tim's list for a "standard" CT12. What to do now?  :-\

OK, seriously now. I believe Tim himself (but I can't speak for him) prefers the full air and detail of the original, although those likely varied, too. From what I recall (but again, don't take my word for it) Jim Jacobsen asks Tim to "tame" the capsules a little in the highs, for his (C12 inspired) Dutch microphone.
Still, such (a) large membrane(s) without the center screw will always sound somewhat scooped, albeit in a broad an smooth way.
You could try to compensate right at the beginning i.e. at the capsule, but there's only so much you can do there. Also, I'm not sure if that's a wise thing to do. More about this later.

You could also try to adjust the following circuit (for lifted midrange).

And you could try to compensate at the transformer's "end" (e.g. with one of the three T14 varieties Oliver offers).

Now, custom fine tuning for one's own particular needs can never be wrong and variety is the spice of life, but I believe there's a pitfall there, too. Leveling things to get it as close to flat as possible and make this a do-it-all microphone might kill the actual strengths. E.g. it will never have the mid attitude of a U47 anyway. So rather than trying to approach that, one could also embrace the broad scoop (with killer lows and true air band) and use it as a mike that will fold around others, adding width and depth to a mix.

Mmmm....... I'm maybe using too many words to get my point across. Just trying to start a discussion about this while we're still in the developing stage. 

And why not invite both Tim and Oliver to join it.

 

[chunger]

OK. . . just got off the phone with Tim, and it looks like he is willing to source capsules.  As I suspected, this is a very labor-intensive and time-consuming kind of product, and he is a single-person operation.  Production is not easy to scale, but as demand for his capsules has increased steadily, he has been streamlining his process bit by bit.  Being as there are no lulls in demand and production of Tim's capsules, there will be no price-breaks.  I am just happy he is willing to work with me to make the capsules available and complete kits possible for this project.  It is known from multiple sources (industry insiders and end-users) that currently, this capsule is the best available.

Actual logistics may depend on capsule demand at the time kits are being prepared.  It could end up being a batch quantity or it could be a trickle of ~5 at a time.  In the end, we'll figure it out and everyone who wants one should be able to get one.

 

[tonycamp]

I love this! I can't wait to build this mic

 

[Volume11]

OK. . . just got off the phone with Tim, and it looks like he is willing to source capsules.  As I suspected, this is a very labor-intensive and time-consuming kind of product, and he is a single-person operation.  Production is not easy to scale, but as demand for his capsules has increased steadily, he has been streamlining his process bit by bit.  Being as there are no lulls in demand and production of Tim's capsules, there will be no price-breaks.  I am just happy he is willing to work with me to make the capsules available and complete kits possible for this project.  It is known from multiple sources (industry insiders and end-users) that currently, this capsule is the best available.

Actual logistics may depend on capsule demand at the time kits are being prepared.  I could end up being a batch quantity or it could be a trickle of ~5 at a time.  In the end, we'll figure it out and everyone who wants one should be able to get one.

Hey Chunger, I'm on your list for the two ht11-a mics. Will I still have access to the kits offer in this deal, or possible parts kit to mod these mics?

 

[desol]

And why not invite both Tim and Oliver to join it.

Because these two fellows are too busy with more important things, like running their own companies and tending to clients with alot more money and status. Having said that, a person would be lucky to have their involvement and consider a project such as this as being serious.

But....big, rich sound, not too strident/sibilant in the upper mid/top with good reach is the sound i would be after. C12's are fairly well known for their rich sound on acoustic guitars.

 

[Winetree]

I'm in for 2 complete kits.

 

[micaddict]

Because these two fellows are too busy with more important things, like running their own companies and tending to clients with alot more money and status.

Well, I didn't mean their permanent presence. Just to share their vision on capsule and tranny tuning respectively (which surely won't hurt them).
Yes, for this here C12 project.
And yes, it will be successful if we all want it to be.

 

[chunger]

Hey Chunger, I'm on your list for the two ht11-a mics. Will I still have access to the kits offer in this deal, or possible parts kit to mod these mics?

This should be no problem at all.  I suspect here on GDIY, where people generally have experience sourcing parts and making modifications to suit their needs, I anticipate providing PCB's and partial kits as necessary.  Certainly pre-purchasing your HT-11A's or buying Apex 460's from another vendor will not be a problem.

I do not know how the timing of everything will line up.  There are a few items with long lead times:

1.  Bodies
2.  Custom Headbaskets
3.  Capsules
4.  Transformers
5.  tested microphone grade tubes

I am pushing to have complete kits readily available as an end goal, but individual items will likely come online at different times.  We'll have to be a bit flexible especially early adopters.

The full turn-key, optimized kit is just a convenience or something the seasoned DIY'er treats himself to every once in a while.  The primary purpose of the kit and thorough build documentation in my mind would be to bring in the interested outsider perhaps someone who has built tube amps, pedals, or even a newbie like me.

As for Oliver and Tim, they are busy people and do monitor and participate in forums from time to time.  I don't expect direct interaction here though.  As for Tim's vision for his capsule, he has seen probably just as many or more original C12's as anybody.  Of his personal 10+ original copies, he voiced his production variant after a very good-sounding middle-of-the-road C12.

 

[micaddict]

Tim Campbell is an official GroupDIY member with 176 posts behind his name. More than me actually. I see no reason why he wouldn't chime in sooner or later, especially on this one. Have a little faith, guys.

Yes, he has a selected original AKG capsule for reference, but he does voice differently upon request.

 

[3nity]

Chunger.
YOu have a working prototype or is this just purely a feeler? no harsh intended.
id like to see how the final results looks like.
Thanks

 

[chunger]

Chunger.
YOu have a working prototype or is this just purely a feeler? no harsh intended.
id like to see how the final results looks like.
Thanks

This is a feeler.  Prototyping will likely begin at the end of the week.  5 test PCB sets and components for 2 microphones ordered last week.  We have Cinemag 2480 on hand and need to get T14's.  Oliver just got done with AES trade show so he will be taking a 4 day break from all things business to recover.  I have on hand microphone grade GE6072, Mullard AT7, and Siemens AT7 as well as 2 of Tim's CT12 capsules.

I'm actively lining up sources for various hard-to-get parts.  I have submitted dimension-ed drawings to the factory for modified HT-11A headbasket and they are reviewing the design to assess manufacturing logistics.  No word back when they will be able to prototype yet.  It has only been a few days since I submitted drawings.

No, we do not have a working prototype yet.

 

[drumminkiger]

I would love to see a PCB out there like this for a C12 build. The closer to a shameless C12 ripoff the better (except in the power supply, outside of the signal path)! What's great about this circut is it's simplicity so it seems as though it's mostly about capsule/transformer/tube selection. Having a PCB to build a replica of the preamp board, pattern selection, and all of the audio path in the PSU would make it a perfect DIY reproduction of the mic. I would also love to see more metalwork options at a more reasonable price, but the apex 460 body seems like it will work well enough with some creative mods and you just cant beat the cost. I would say, crank out those PCB's, and then look at making kits from there. Right now the accurate preamp stage is the biggest missing link IMO.

 

[Matador]

Part of the issue is finding low-noise, low-microphonic tubes.  I have a high gain guitar amp that I can install 9-pin tubes in the first socket, and install a shorting plug in the input jack.  Then the amp can be dimed, and the tube can be rapped with a pencil to listen for noises in the speaker.  I'm finding more and more tubes are failing this test.

One option might be to see what Lord Valve in Denver has in stock, as his QC process for incoming tubes is pretty much second-to-none.

 

[Matador]

PCB prototypes have shipped from Shanghai - should have them mid next week.

 

[Matador]

Is anyone interested in teardown pics of the stock Alctron mike and PSU? 

I'm nowhere near the photo documenter that Chunger is, but if anyone is interested in seeing the guts and how things are dismantled I can try to take some pics along the way.

 

[Volume11]

Is anyone interested in teardown pics of the stock Alctron mike and PSU? 

I'm nowhere near the photo documenter that Chunger is, but if anyone is interested in seeing the guts and how things are dismantled I can try to take some pics along the way.

This will be my first c12 build, so I am definitely interested.

 

[HellfireStudios]

Do you know if headbaskets will be available as a seperate item yet? I'm happy with my C12 clone as is, but a more-accurate headbasket would be nice. I might even do two, if my budget allows...

-James-

 

[chunger]

Do you know if headbaskets will be available as a seperate item yet? I'm happy with my C12 clone as is, but a more-accurate headbasket would be nice. I might even do two, if my budget allows...

-James-

I should hear news from the factory sometime tomorrow.  There have been some developments.  I'm sure minimum order quantities will be much higher than necessary to support this specific project, so yes. . . these will be available separately for folks to retrofit their Apex 460's and other similar mics that are cut from the same tooling.