Forum advice

[Ricardus]

I really feel like if a young recordist is carrying his 500 modules to studios in zip lock bags, and asked his dad the best way to transport them, then maybe he probably maybe sorta isn't qualified enough to be charging customer for his services?????

 

[shabtek]

why not? we all gotta eat, and learn.

 

[john12ax7]

Even the greatest expert starts out knowing nothing.

 

[Ricardus]

why not? we all gotta eat, and learn.

why not?

My reply would be about a local artist who paid a guy to make her record because he said he knew what he was doing. He was a professional after all... he charged money and stuff for his services.

The recording and mixing quality is objectively awful. Like a child of 6 did the work.

People who do work who might not know what they're doing make it harder for the rest of us.

It's like why people hate buying cars. Because of the used car salesman BS they've been put through before.

 

[shabtek]

we all gotta live and learn, and eat

due diligence might come late

 

[Ricardus]

we all gotta live and learn, and eat

due diligence might come late

Then they need to be working for free. Don't learn basic skill on a customer's dime.

 

[chilidawg]

Then they need to be working for free. Don't learn basic skill on a customer's dime.

Sorry, but I disagree. Working for free is a disease. Once people know you are willing to do it for free, that's what they will always expect from you.

All work must be paid no matter how shitty the job was done.

I started out working for free, and it took me a couple of years to shake it off until I was finally being paid accordingly, up until everyone can learn singing, recording, mixing, mastering and publishing their work on YouTube, social media and even Tiktok, that me and my fellow other engineers are no longer needed. Commercial recording and project studios went out of business one by one, and the recording industry in this country eventually died. There are still a few in business, but I don't see them doing any work. Just a leftover pride living on the memory of the good old glory days and can't sell the equipment, because nobody wants it (or can afford to buy it from them anyway)

My last job before Covid hit us hard was teaching audio engineering at SAE, but now even SAE doesn't offer this course anymore. Only film, 3D animation and game development courses.

 

[Matador]

All work must be paid no matter how shitty the job was done.

Really? If you order a sandwich, and the chef takes a shit on it, you still gotta pay for it and put it down the hatch?

 

[scott2000]

Life does kinda feel that way sometimes....

 

[Ricardus]

Sorry, but I disagree. Working for free is a disease. Once people know you are willing to do it for free, that's what they will always expect from you.

All work must be paid no matter how shitty the job was done.

I started out working for free, and it took me a couple of years to shake it off until I was finally being paid accordingly, up until everyone can learn singing, recording, mixing, mastering and publishing their work on YouTube, social media and even Tiktok, that me and my fellow other engineers are no longer needed. Commercial recording and project studios went out of business one by one, and the recording industry in this country eventually died. There are still a few in business, but I don't see them doing any work. Just a leftover pride living on the memory of the good old glory days and can't sell the equipment, because nobody wants it (or can afford to buy it from them anyway)

My last job before Covid hit us hard was teaching audio engineering at SAE, but now even SAE doesn't offer this course anymore. Only film, 3D animation and game development courses.

I don't disagree that work should be paid. I hate the whole free internship BS.

But that's not what I'm arguing. People who aren't qualified to do a decent job shouldn't have the audacity to charge.

Sure, "if people wanna pay them let them pay them." And if they were an electrician and they burned your house down you'd have recourse. But a crappy audio engineer isn't going to be sued for a bad job, and most people don't have the knowledge to know whether a person is qualified or not. They seem some LED meters moving and some shiny knobs and they're convinced. And that's the crux of it here. Most people simply don't know.

As I said, used car salespeople ruin the whole the car buying experience for everyone.

 

[shabtek]

we went from 500 modules in a paper sack to an anecdote of poor service from an amateur recordist-- didn't this amateur have some kind of resume or example of past work that the paying customer used as a standard? there are countless people with some tooling and inkling of how to make recordings, and all would like to be payed for their efforts--many would be happy for an opportunity to refine their craft with compensation being negotiable.

 

[crazydoc]

All work must be paid no matter how shitty the job was done.

That's why we physicians charge, even though we're just "practicing" medicine, and some of us never get very good at it. After all, the person who graduates at the bottom of his med school class is called "Doctor."

 

[Recording Engineer]

I believe the questions are: What does “qualified” mean? Who determines what that is? A piece of paper from a group of educators certified by a government? Peers? Is the product a piece of art or a documentation? Did the client due their due diligence in selecting someone to work in their project? Is the client so green that the quality almost doesn’t matter to them because they’re just so excited to complete one of their first projects? Is the client satisfied?

 

[chilidawg]

Really? If you order a sandwich, and the chef takes a shit on it, you still gotta pay for it and put it down the hatch?

What you are saying is a shitty result that's done intentionally. Nobody is gonna pay for it, and it's not what we're discussing here.

 

[Ricardus]

we went from 500 modules in a paper sack to an anecdote of poor service from an amateur recordist-- didn't this amateur have some kind of resume or example of past work that the paying customer used as a standard? there are countless people with some tooling and inkling of how to make recordings, and all would like to be payed for their efforts--many would be happy for an opportunity to refine their craft with compensation being negotiable.

Yeah, maybe they have a resume. Not sure, but all I needed to hear was their dad asking if it's OK to bring your 500 modules to my studio in a zip-lock baggie.

Which then means I probably have to UN-rack some of my modules to fit yours in, which takes time and risks more and more unnecessary insertions into my edge connectors, and also stresses the contacts on your modules and mine.

For me it's a polite NO THANK YOU unless your name is Hugh Padgham and you have a good reason.

 

[Gold]

I guess everyone can imagine their own scenario since the OP didn’t give details. I imagined a kid with a studio in his parents basement who charges his friends bands some money to buy gear. Sometimes he goes to his friends studio to record. The obvious choice is a lunchbox. He can’t be rolling in cash if he’s looking to avoid the cost of a lunchbox.

 

[Ricardus]

I guess everyone can imagine their own scenario since the OP didn’t give details. I imagined a kid with a studio in his parents basement who charges his friends bands some money to buy gear. Sometimes he goes to his friends studio to record. The obvious choice is a lunchbox. He can’t be rolling in cash if he’s looking to avoid the cost of a lunchbox.

Fair point. And that would be a fantastic scenario. Recording some friends and such. But who owns the lunchboxes he's going to plug into, in that scenario?

 

[Matador]

What you are saying is a shitty result that's done intentionally. Nobody is gonna pay for it, and it's not what we're discussing here.

Fair enough - so does the same hold for food that is too heavily salted? If the customer can't eat it, the chef is still owed money, no matter how terrible the food is? I know of few restaurants that operate in this way, and I don't see why audio engineering should be any different.

I fully admit I might be in the minority, but I don't feel I deserve any compensation for any work I do unless the customer is satisfied with the outcome, and that determination is up to the customer. When I repair an amp for a fee, I get paid when the customer is happy with the work. If they aren't, I don't charge them. In 15 years doing this work nobody has "stiffed" me for a repair that was done well. I don't charge for my time, I charge for completed work (of which my time is a factor in the fee).

There are other amp service guys in my area that charge by the hour, regardless of the outcome. A lot of their customers end up coming to me soon after.

 

[fazer]

If your going with 500 series , you kind of need to buy a rack/lunchbox for it. Its a money path. I agree I would not necessary want to unlatch my modules from my own rack to accommodate others but mine are in my console eq slots. I work on my 550s to repair caps and amps over the years and so far have not broken any. By the time you buy the rack and patching cables and such which also require a patch-bay that comes in 2 to 3 standards, it can be confusing for a person new to recording.

 

[Ricardus]

If your going with 500 series , you kind of need to buy a rack/lunchbox for it.

A lunchbox/rack or an API console, yes.