Ginsburg

[living sounds]

The Democrats are a party that includes lean left, center as well as right leaning positions and people. In the 90s it adopted or at least supported some of the neoliberal positions, just like many other center / center-left parties around the world during that time. It has moved a little to the left again on some issues since then.

The Republicans these days have become a center-right to far-right party with clearly visible authoritarian, anti-democratic leanings.

A recent study has found them to resemble far-right authoritarian parties that exist in Hungary or Turkey:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/26/world/republican-party-more-illiberal-study-intl/index.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/26/republican-party-autocratic-hungary-turkey-study-trump


So no, they are really not alike at all.

Of course a multi-party system would be a lot more democratic, but as everyone knows, the system is very difficult to change for the better...

 

[fazer]

The Democrats are a party that includes lean left, center as well as right leaning positions and people. In the 90s it adopted or at least supported some of the neoliberal positions, just like many other center / center-left parties around the world during that time. It has moved a little to the left again on some issues since then.

The Republicans these days have become a center-right to far-right party with clearly visible authoritarian, anti-democratic leanings.

A recent study has found them to resemble far-right authoritarian parties that exist in Hungary or Turkey:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/26/world/republican-party-more-illiberal-study-intl/index.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/26/republican-party-autocratic-hungary-turkey-study-trump


So no, they are really not alike at all.

Of course a multi-party system would be a lot more democratic, but as everyone knows, the system is very difficult to change for the better...

CNN and the guardian would not be my choice for proof.  I listen to your opinion but also have mine.  It’s not  like the Wild West where I live and the country is not overrun with white supremacy in the party from the people I’m around anyway.  Much to the drama on fox, cnn, Twitter MSN,  and other clickbate networks, we have propaganda for all kinds of reasons.  Give me liberty not conformity..  I except the election and will take it a day at a time.  I’m tried of being on a yo-yo .  If your are that vested you probably are not working enough and spending to much time on your phone.

 

[living sounds]

So I guess you agree? 

 

[bluebird]

I find Joe Rogan, Bret Winestein.  Dave Rubin and others far more interesting than any national news program.  The shows consist of liberal and conservative views and they communicate what we have In common than our 

100%... For anyone interested in listening to very smart, interesting people talking about current affairs, politics, science, philosophy, systems, etc. Please check out these peoples podcasts:

Bret Weinstein - Evolutionary biologist
Eric Weinstein - Mathematician
Sam Harris - Clinical physiologist, philosopher.

They analyze and pick apart both the left and right. They also point out the problems with higher education/universities left leaning politics from which they came from. They question everything without falling into the "conspiracy theory" trap which is very refreshing.

The Joe Rogan Experience podcast is a great place to start as he interviews all these people.

 

[john12ax7]

Since we took a podcast veer I'ld also add Lex Fridman, a little more tech /science side of things with some good guests.

 

[fazer]

So I guess you agree? 

Sorry livingsounds. I posted your quote without a reply.  I went in to write a reply and left it open on my phone to complete and a good hr went by before. Posted.  I don’t agree but we’re all entitled to our opinions. 

 

[john12ax7]

So no, they are really not alike at all.

In some rhetoric no.  But in results? Both parties have been a net negative for the people.  Wealth inequality has increased steadily for decades under both parties.

I'm in California,  which is firmly Democrat,  and it is quite shocking how bad things have gotten.  Some of the worst inequality you will see.

Democrats in California handling finance are about as good as Republicans  handling epidemics.

 

[dmp]

Unfortunately, neither party can compete without taking money from the deep corporate pockets. That has been the case for awhile, and was dramatically accelerated by citizens united, which unleashed floodgates of dark money. Corporate Lobbyists literally write legislation in Washington. 
The US (and other countries) are criticized as corporate oligarchies and there is some truth to it. Replacing the sell-outs with principled people will take a miracle. If voters however weren't so fricken stupid about voting (or NOT voting), it could turn around really rapidly.

But there is a big difference between the two parties IMO.
Republican's have been pushing things to be worse (citizens united, suppressing voters, tax cuts for the rich), while Democrats have been resisting and trying to put band-aids on (i.e. safety net stuff). Call the Democrats "controlled resistance" - fine - but they have not been doing the things that have really moved the needle on wealth inequality - they just haven't been able to stop it.
There is a huge imbalance between labor and capital right now - there isn't much a state government can do about wealth inequality.  Republicans lower inheritance taxes (GWB), capital gains taxes (GWB), and corporate taxes (DJT), all of which caused wealth inequality to explode. next time you think about buying a house, realize that 30-40% of wealth is now inherited in this country. That is what you are competing with for housing prices and why you see sky high prices.

Read about the Progressive movement 100 years ago championed by Teddy Roosevelt. The country has been here before and principled people were able to turn it around.  Controlling corporations, protecting the environment, consumer protection.
Controlling money and influence in politics, however, is the first thing that has to happen. 

 

[living sounds]

CNN and the guardian would not be my choice for proof.  I listen to your opinion but also have mine.  It’s not  like the Wild West where I live and the country is not overrun with white supremacy in the party from the people I’m around anyway.  Much to the drama on fox, cnn, Twitter MSN,  and other clickbate networks, we have propaganda for all kinds of reasons.  Give me liberty not conformity..  I except the election and will take it a day at a time.  I’m tried of being on a yo-yo .  If your are that vested you probably are not working enough and spending to much time on your phone.

Smaller dramas are happening everyday, many not before an audience, but they are caused by bad policies nevertheless.

As for that study, it has nothing to do with the news outlets, they are just reporting its findings. If, like me, you are a political animal who follows these things you surely will have noticed, the study just confirms it. I don't write on dicussion boards on my phones (too slow, even dictating to Siri IMO), but I will be happy when this is finally over and I can concentrate more on music (since this is where the time comes from mostly, there's still work work and volunteer work).

 

[john12ax7]

Call the Democrats "controlled resistance" - fine - but they have not been doing the things that have really moved the needle on wealth inequality - they just haven't been able to stop it.

I agree with a lot of your points,  but not this one.  Democratic support of things like corporate bailouts,  stimulus,  and monetary policy have made things worse. They've moved the needle with their actions.

 

[living sounds]

I agree with a lot of your points,  but not this one.  Democratic support of things like corporate bailouts,  stimulus,  and monetary policy have made things worse. They've moved the needle with their actions.

What do you think would have happened to ordinary people without stimulus, corporate bailouts and monetary policies? There's a vicious cycle that anti-tax- and deregulation-ideology has brought about, and there are always political realities do deal with. Like the one that people want benefits but don't want to pay the taxes for it.

The electorate are not acting like adults, and thus the politicians won't either. The latter can only be as good as the former.

 

[dmp]

I agree with a lot of your points,  but not this one.  Democratic support of things like corporate bailouts,  stimulus,  and monetary policy have made things worse. They've moved the needle with their actions.

Those things have made it worse. But economic recessions or depressions are really bad too. Democrats pushed for direct stimulus/ unemployment to individuals in stimulus this year while Republicans pushed for stimulus to business leaders and direct bailouts to businesses. Big difference. Democrats have said student loans should have low interest rates like what the Fed gives to businesses. Republicans oppose that.
Obama did bail out Detroit etc... during the GFC, but the major bailouts already started under GWB, and Obama inherited a trainwreck. it's hard to say how bad the recession would have been if the gov. allowed more of the economy to fold. I wasn't a fan of the bailouts either. It's only made bad actors worse since they know they get to keep the profits and when things crash socialize the losses. 

Helping the labor market morphed into helping businesses over the past 40 years, Reaganomics. The idea was labelled trickle down economics - familiar?

The boom-bust cycle of the economy should be addressed by eliminating too-big-to-fail businesses. But that's not going to happen when corporations run things.
It goes back to the what I was saying about emulating the progressive platform of 100 yrs ago. At that time, anti-trust legislation turned things around.  We need something similar to break the corporate power.

 

[fazer]

The electorate are not acting like adults, and thus the politicians won't either. The latter can only be as good as the former.

So true!

It goes back to the what I was saying about emulating the progressive platform of 100 yrs ago. At that time, anti-trust legislation turned things around.  We need something similar to break the corporate power.

100% agreement

 

[john12ax7]

What do you think would have happened to ordinary people without stimulus, corporate bailouts and monetary policies?

They would have been better  off.

Democrats pushed for direct stimulus/ unemployment to individuals in stimulus this year

If the goal really is to help the average citizen then directing all of the money to individuals is the best way. But much like the comical notion of republicans being for balanced budgets and fiscal responsibility... I'll believe it when it actually happens.