Help/advice/guidance translating schematics onto a pcb

[djmiggymigz]

Looking for some help getting over the initial learning curve of reading and translating a schematic onto a breadboard/blank pcb. Very specifically I'm trying to breadboard the DIYRE cloudbooster. I just bought and built the diy kit and looking at the schematic (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0698/2265/files/MB2_1.0_Schematic.pdf?v=1642446351) it seems to be simple! Already ordered what parts I don't already have.

I already know I need to learn about how parallel/series components are actually laid out. I have at least a decent understanding of the theory behind it but how it looks and is organized on a PCB is where I get lost.

How did you do it? When building your first project based solely on a schematic, what did that look like? Breadboard first? Try, try, try maybe burn a few components but eventually you get there? As a rather newbie, building something solely from the schematic is very intimidating but I gotta start somewhere! Any help/thoughts/questions are appreciated!

 

[djmiggymigz]

Here's a pdf of the schematic I'm looking at in case the link doesn't work!

 

[djmiggymigz]

Also, side thought: what software do yall use to design and print custom pcb's? Maybe even just tinkering around in there would help me understand how things get laid out! I'm thinking/hoping something like blender but for PCB's exists. Googling now!

 

[djmiggymigz]

Talking to myself right now lol but: on KiCad now and this seems highly helpful! Draw out and copy the schematic, look at how it lays it out on a pcb!

 

[ruffrecords]

For a relatively simple circuit like the cloud lifter, your physical layout can be very similar to the schematic. You will notice that most of the components are vertical on the schematic apart from the semiconductors and a couple of capacitors. I would encourage you first to try building this circuit on Vero board which works pretty well if you layout the components as they are in the schematic.

Before you get into full blown CAD programs like Kicad I would suggest you look at Fritzing which will help you layout a Vero board design and then progress to PCB design (although, looking at the latest version, it looks like Vero board support has been dropped and replaced by protoboard support???)

Edit: Turns out Vero board or, as they call it, strip board, is still supported - phew!

Cheers

Ian

 

[djmiggymigz]

Okay awesome thanks for the reply. I'll give that a look as well! At what point do PCB layout start to not resemble the schematic layout? Is it just a matter of how much is going on and kind of the most economic/easiest way to lay it out?

To give a little context, the goal I'm working toward is building a 312 clone from scratch (with the addition of a trim before the output similar to 1073's. I have several schematic including the original from API and they look deceivingly simple! Really not much going on considering the value of the hardware however, I need to start somewhere simpler for sure.

 

[fragletrollet]

I'd consider EasyEDA as well, for both schematic drawing, PCB layout and even part selection/placement and PCB manufacturing integrated.

Free, and less intimidating than say Eagle.

 

[Whoops]

Looking for some help getting over the initial learning curve of reading and translating a schematic onto a breadboard/blank pcb.

There a lot of videos on Youtube where you can learn to do that,
nowdays I find youtube the best learning resource that exists.

Here are just 2 videos, but there's a lot of videos on youtube:

 

[Whoops]

Also, side thought: what software do yall use to design and print custom pcb's?

A lot of people use and like KiCAD.

In the past Ive used Eagle and that was popular, but I always found Eagle to be too outdated in it's user interface and not user friendly

 

[ruffrecords]

Okay awesome thanks for the reply. I'll give that a look as well! At what point do PCB layout start to not resemble the schematic layout? Is it just a matter of how much is going on and kind of the most economic/easiest way to lay it out?

Schematic layout is (should) be driven by the need to convey how the circuit operates - things like inputs on the left, outputs on the right, ground at the bottom and supplies at the top. None of these is relevant for PCB design. For example, some of the additional things a PCB needs to to are:

1. Be mounted somehow
2. Have input, output and power connectors plus controls in positions determined by things like how it fits in the enclosure, and the desired physical postion of the controls
3. Be designed for ease of assembly. This often means lining up passive components in rows (which is preferable for automated component insertion)
4. Take care of ensuring that power and ground reach the right places with minimum voltage drop.

To give a little context, the goal I'm working toward is building a 312 clone from scratch (with the addition of a trim before the output similar to 1073's. I have several schematic including the original from API and they look deceivingly simple! Really not much going on considering the value of the hardware however, I need to start somewhere simpler for sure.

Well, first the 312 uses an edge connector and a very specific size of PCB (two items not included on the schematic). It also has controls that need to be in very specific places in order to properly mate with the front panel.

Cheers

Ian

 

[TLK]

Many years ago where I worked, I had a seat license for a very expensive piece of software for PCB design called Protel. After years away from any PC board design, I recently designed a fairly simple electronic device that I sell using KiCad. KiCad is a good piece of software that will do everything you need. It does have a but of a learning curve, but it's a short one and there is plenty of KiCad help available with many YouTube videos. For those here that like to design PC boards, the place to get them manufactured at a minimal cost is JLCPCB.COM in China. I doubt you will beat the prices and quality is firat class. I recently re-ordered 10 pcs of a double sided thru hole board they previously manufacturered for me. Time from placing the re-order on line to finished boards arriving at my door was 7 days !

 

[blue_luke]

As usual Ruffrecords gives good advices.
I have been making PCB using Protel in DOS 3.0!! 40 years or so?
Now I am retired and I still do electronic designs and builds mostly for fun.
Electronic is still a passion for me.
So now I use KiCad https://www.kicad.org/ which is very potent and free, and it generates all the files needed by the pcb fabs, but most software works somehow on the same principle:
- draw the schematic
- specify all the required footprints
- generate the netlist and the component list
- import the netlist in the pcb design tool and at this point it is very important that you have no errors. To insure this run the "rule" check tool and go back to the component list and the connection list. Check especially for network that in your head are all the same but are different on the schematic.
To give you an example, GND, Gnd, Ground and GND1, GND2, are all different things,
Same with Vcc +V Vpos +15v etc are different so if you want these connected there should be a point on the schematic where the intended connections are made otherwise you will get error messages like "power source noc connected" "Power pins not connected" etc...

As Ian suggested, first place the connectors, switches, potentiometers etc where they will go on the front/rear panel AND DO NOT FORGET THE MOUNTING HOLES ! I still di this mistakes!
Usually, I print the top layout and the silkscreen on the same sheet and I check if the main components like transformers, pot switches connectors etc how they will "look" on the board especially any mounting holes for connectors if any, the size of the holes for the pins etc...
It gives you also a good idea of the final dimensions. A 2X4 inches pcb projects a certain image in your head but there is nothing like seeing it in front of you!

Once you import the components they usually get placed all close together, I usually separate them by sections, say move a quad op-amp, you will note that the "ratnest" follows it, so now move all the other parts that are related to this chip and move that cluster somewhere NOT on the board.
Do the same for all other sections like regulators, power stages etc...
Then at this point you can consider moving these sections on the PCB.
The name of the game is to keep all the tracks short.
Use always at least 2 layer or more pcb , the cost of two layer stock is trivial and sometimes even more expensive than single sided board!
The reason for this is that each pad will be more sturdy because of the internal plating that acts as a small rivet so it reduce very much the tendency for a pad to lift from the board when repairing or removing components.
Make all traces on one side vertical, and on the other horizontal and then stick to it, using vias to go from one side to the other.
There is no rule as to which side, just decide on any reason you may have.

There is much more to it but your little project is a good first try but be aware that just the layout, especially using high impedance and high gain devices, will have an effect on noise, distortion, bandwidth, stability etc...

Luc