All that double tracking and delay they used on John's voice was really cool, kind of wish that sound would come back in style a little more. However what I'm really hearing is more a result of the mic and then to a slightly lesser extent the preamp and tape machine too. I used Rubber Soul as an example, but really I meant a whole lot of early Beatles recordings, though not everyone. Even when John or Paul's voice is raw and single tracked is still sounds super fat with lots of useable lows and cutting in a midrangy sort of way. The vocal sounds are significantly fatter than most other recordings, especially in today's modern stuff. I forgot to add that for the first time I heard the Beatles vocal sound when I auditioned the Sound delux U47 copy through a V76 pre, except when I hit it hard it lost something.
Help want my voice to sound like John Lennon Rubber Soul
- Thread starter rich
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Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
rich, another thing to consider, rubber soul isnt a particularly dense recording, and the stuff that predates it, more so. You are just hearing more of the mic in the mix, as the vocal is featured more. I cant tell y ou how many times Ive recorded a vocal and thought "oh my god, this is the best vocal sound Ive ever got, I cant wait to mix this song" and then when all the overdubs are finished, the vocal sounds just like everything else Ive done because the mix is too dense to hear any space around the vocal mic.
ultimately though, if someone else walked up to the mic during one of those sessions, you'd be describing the sound of the mic in a different way, Im sure.
dave
ultimately though, if someone else walked up to the mic during one of those sessions, you'd be describing the sound of the mic in a different way, Im sure.
dave
It is true their vocals are very high in relation to the mixes, but when you say the tracks are not that dense I'm not sure I follow, to me the instrumentation on Revolver, and Rubber Soul etc... are very thick. The Beatles stuff in general sounds thicker to me than most anything I've ever heard, they really push the envelop of having it sound almost like mud, are you referring to the lack of delay and effects as not being dense because yea there isn't a whole lot of depth in that area but turning the Beatles into Pink Floyd would kind of ruin it for me.
Winston OBoogie
Well-known member
...
rich-
Rubber Soul and Revolver were recorded and mixed through a tube console, so the quality of the recorded tracks is indeed "thick" compared to an eagles record, but the instrumentation is about as minimal as you are ever gonna get. I wasnt suggesting that the vocals are particularly loud in level, just that there is not a great quantity of recorded tracks above which they need to rise. As such, you get to hear more of the air around the mic which would get lost if there are a bunch of other tracks forming a bed under the vocal. Take taxman for instance, you've got the entire band on a reduction in the left channel through the entire first verse with a nice clean vocal sitting in the middle and nothing competing with it in the right channel. It isnt until the seocnd verse that youve got a tambourine there. When the guitar comes in, the vocal goes away... Try to make a record like this. People talk about the genius of george martin as an arranger and a producer but fail, IMO, to really get into what made that man a god among the living. If they had double the rhythm guitar in the right channel for the entire song, the vocal would have a *completely* different feel which is why the "mr wilson" answers have the impact that they do, coming in where the guitar drops out. You can almost see the thought process behind splitting out the double vocals in dr robert based on whats happening with where the band is panned in the mix.
Anyway, they had few tracks to mix from and a small console to mix on so you know there wasnt any parallel bussing going on, etc. As such, the vocals have a space to breathe as they arent competing with a bunch of other shit, so you get to hear how really incredible the track sounds. Many other records have equally great vocal tracks, its just harder to hear as the arrangements for the songs feature much more stuff.
If you follow my logic, if you have a halfway decent mic and superstar talent singing into it, depeding on how sparse you can control yourself to be, you can make a record that sounds like this. On the other hand, you can have the best gear on earth and record 24 or more tracks and get less than impressive results. Reference everything that happened once 24 track became standard for examples of that.
dave
Rubber Soul and Revolver were recorded and mixed through a tube console, so the quality of the recorded tracks is indeed "thick" compared to an eagles record, but the instrumentation is about as minimal as you are ever gonna get. I wasnt suggesting that the vocals are particularly loud in level, just that there is not a great quantity of recorded tracks above which they need to rise. As such, you get to hear more of the air around the mic which would get lost if there are a bunch of other tracks forming a bed under the vocal. Take taxman for instance, you've got the entire band on a reduction in the left channel through the entire first verse with a nice clean vocal sitting in the middle and nothing competing with it in the right channel. It isnt until the seocnd verse that youve got a tambourine there. When the guitar comes in, the vocal goes away... Try to make a record like this. People talk about the genius of george martin as an arranger and a producer but fail, IMO, to really get into what made that man a god among the living. If they had double the rhythm guitar in the right channel for the entire song, the vocal would have a *completely* different feel which is why the "mr wilson" answers have the impact that they do, coming in where the guitar drops out. You can almost see the thought process behind splitting out the double vocals in dr robert based on whats happening with where the band is panned in the mix.
Anyway, they had few tracks to mix from and a small console to mix on so you know there wasnt any parallel bussing going on, etc. As such, the vocals have a space to breathe as they arent competing with a bunch of other shit, so you get to hear how really incredible the track sounds. Many other records have equally great vocal tracks, its just harder to hear as the arrangements for the songs feature much more stuff.
If you follow my logic, if you have a halfway decent mic and superstar talent singing into it, depeding on how sparse you can control yourself to be, you can make a record that sounds like this. On the other hand, you can have the best gear on earth and record 24 or more tracks and get less than impressive results. Reference everything that happened once 24 track became standard for examples of that.
dave
[quote author="Winston O'Boogie"]
1/ John Lennon
2/ A.R. Studio number 2 acoustics
[/quote]
winston, are you suggesting this stuff that isnt gear could possibly be relevant? AND you put it in the top two?
shame on you, trying to confuse everyone here.
dave
1/ John Lennon
2/ A.R. Studio number 2 acoustics
[/quote]
winston, are you suggesting this stuff that isnt gear could possibly be relevant? AND you put it in the top two?
shame on you, trying to confuse everyone here.
dave
strangeandbouncy
Well-known member
Sorry Soundguy,
i'm with Winston here1
Andy P
i'm with Winston here1
Andy P
Winston OBoogie
Well-known member
...
That makes sense. Early on, befoe they figured out how to save time by doing vocals while someone bounced tracks, they had a lot of time on their hands, so up to the roof for a puff or two.
And I remember something about some greenery being consumed inside the echo chamber.
Yes, the first two albums were recorded more or less live with background vocs added later. 10 Songs in one session, but they had the chops to pull it off after doing mega shows in Hamburg and the Cavern.
Winston, you have a schematic for the 47 line amp?
:guinness:
And I remember something about some greenery being consumed inside the echo chamber.
Yes, the first two albums were recorded more or less live with background vocs added later. 10 Songs in one session, but they had the chops to pull it off after doing mega shows in Hamburg and the Cavern.
Winston, you have a schematic for the 47 line amp?
:guinness:
Winston OBoogie
Well-known member
...
Winston OBoogie
Well-known member
...
winston, you should advertise "assembled with run o' the mill" crap. That would rule...
Can you call me soundguy in real life too, I quite like that. Im never calling you by your real name again, christened sir boogie.
bow your head to I can tap your shoulders with my sword.
dave
Can you call me soundguy in real life too, I quite like that. Im never calling you by your real name again, christened sir boogie.
bow your head to I can tap your shoulders with my sword.
dave
Swedish Chef
Well-known member
[quote author="Winston O'Boogie"]I have been giving a little thought to something however - is anyone interested in building a REDD47 type amp? The reason I ask is because I just came across a few dozen PC boards that I did a quick layout on for a lower cost version a couple of years ago. The boards don't have the HT regulator on them because that was handled elsewhere, as was the main HT and LT supply/reg stuff. I don't really have to time to manage a big group project at the moment but it did get me thinking about it as a possible future thing. Anyway, something to mull over maybe,
John..[/quote]
:shock: Consider it mulled!
definately up for that!!!! :thumb:
Winston O'Boogie: Just like Mum used to make...
:green:
chef
John..[/quote]
:shock: Consider it mulled!
definately up for that!!!! :thumb:
Winston O'Boogie: Just like Mum used to make...
:green:
chef
G
Guest
Guest
I'll dig out my books on this if anybody is interested (George Martins and Mark Cunninghams books)...
I had a quick flick through them last night and looked up the stuff about Revolver
Geoff Emerick replaced Hurricane Smith as engineer
They used Fairchilds on the drums for the first time - and close miking
I had a quick flick through them last night and looked up the stuff about Revolver
Geoff Emerick replaced Hurricane Smith as engineer
They used Fairchilds on the drums for the first time - and close miking
Buttercup
Well-known member
Just startin' to get back into me DIY - and my music, so this would be
superb!!!!!!
Thanks Winston!!!!
Count me very much in too.
Giles
superb!!!!!!
Thanks Winston!!!!
Count me very much in too.
Giles
robomatique
Well-known member
Oh, Great!!!
I would definetely be in for one as wee, would be a really nice project, thanks Winston!!!
Robert
I would definetely be in for one as wee, would be a really nice project, thanks Winston!!!
Robert
audiocraft
Well-known member
I'm in for this one as well .... :grin:
I have some info on this that I will scan and post asap ...
:guinness:
Luis
I have some info on this that I will scan and post asap ...
:guinness:
Luis
SSLtech
Well-known member
I'm in for two.
Scouse Power!!!
Keith
Scouse Power!!!
Keith
