How are they getting this subtle high end roll off on their vocal?

[Deadrecords]

So I have been trying to pin point exactly where and what is contributing the most towards this vocal sound I have been chasing .

It's a vocal sound I have been intrigued by drake's camp mixed by noah 40 and their main engineer  gadget (who mixes all their artist records and also big names like rhinanna and beyonce etc.. which all the records he does has the same sound)

I know they say they record with a sony c800g.


This is one of noah and drakes's first projects

1) --->  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tObhNvR8K8&list=PL3EEC695699635C2A&index=4

Now notice the the next projects by them I am going to link you. One from their grammy winning album and the other from one of his later studio albums and notice the tremendous quality difference.

2------> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgL33XNLhu0
3-----> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQsWkb8uzL4
4---->  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1opQY1dJ34
5------> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1opQY1dJ34
6-----> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhhyQKNasXo

Now I am trying to pin point exactly what is getting them this sound on his vocal.... I know his voice is a big factor but it is something their doing with the equipment or their processing because their older projects did not sound like this.

Is it just a great chain and the sony g or is the converters, or is it the processing there doing??

I know he mixes alot in the box but it almost sound like their is some sort of exciter going on on the vocal yet it is amazingly loud and dynamic and the high end on the vocal is lush sounding and it almost sounds like they degraded the sample rate a bit blended in on just the HF or used a really good eq and rolled off the top end..... I just can't seem to figure it out.

What do you all think?

 

[scott2000]

I can't hear well on my phone but it could bit of everything you mentioned or not ... Interesting thought on the SR converting... Not heard that before...

Deessers and hf limiters are nice tools as well in thissss regard I'd imagine....

Good luck with your search. I used to hate trying to figure tricks out and finally getting it when it went out of style.....or when they finally released the tool or software publicly  .....lol

 

[Deadrecords]

I can't hear well on my phone but it could bit of everything you mentioned or not ... Interesting thought on the SR converting... Not heard that before...

Deessers and hf limiters are nice tools as well in thissss regard I'd imagine....

Good luck with your search. I used to hate trying to figure tricks out and finally getting it when it went out of style.....or when they finally released the tool or software publicly  .....lol

Forsure man. Noah is known for using the degradation of SR to help mold his sound so I wouldn't doubt his camp gets creative with it on drake's vocal or fx. Not sure if that is what they are doing or not but it might be that with just a combination of just good gear.

 

[scott2000]

Noah is known for using the degradation of SR to help mold his sound

Cool...

I guess I should've said the SR technique you hypothesized was original to me .... Heard other similar techniques...

Good luck!

 

[fazer]

Have not listen to audio from YouTube so not sure but  Dolby A hi freq compression has been a trick since the 70s.  Then a roll off would be needed.  Look at this tread.

https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=74360.0


Mastering is also crucial.  It’s amazing what good mastering can do to the final vocal sound.  They have some secret weapons in their kit.  I remixed to give the mastering engineer what they need.  I appreciate and need their help with my final product delivery.

All that said you start with a great voice rich in harmonics.  It’s got to be there to get there..

 

[Deadrecords]

Have not listen to audio from YouTube so not sure but  Dolby A hi freq compression has been a trick since the 70s.  Then a roll off would be needed.  Look at this tread.

https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=74360.0


Mastering is also crucial.  It’s amazing what good mastering can do to the final vocal sound.  They have some secret weapons in their kit.  I remixed to give the mastering engineer what they need.  I appreciate and need their help with my final product delivery.

All that said you start with a great voice rich in harmonics.  It’s got to be there to get there..

Interesting.. thank you for this! I'm guessing preforming this with a  plugin vs using hardware and actually executing this process physically is night and day correct?

 

[fazer]

Interesting.. thank you for this! I'm guessing preforming this with a  plugin vs using hardware and actually executing this process physically is night and day correct?

I’ve not used a plug in only a 361 hardware with Cat 22 card.  It’s pretty nice on vocals and acoustic guitars. 

Usually for me the plugin emulation never sounds like the analog chain. Someday that will change.  I used a 251 telefunken on vocals and it seemed like you could jet eq with a simple eq and it never got a biting quality to it.  I remember years ago Rhianna came in with Chris Brown and recorded some vocals while being on tour.  She had a great vocal sound.  Can’t help with the gear that was used.  I was doing post production in another room.  We had a mix but the tracks were on their hard drive and they walked with it.  The studio had some focusrite 430s and a Amek Motzart RN. Console. 

 

[PhilipMarlowe]

honestly, if you have a vocal chain worth 30 grand it will sound good out of the box. You don't need to mix much if you go c800g into a neve into a cl1b. Not surprisingly this is the chain that is on 99% of modern pop/rap music. No, you wont be able to get close with a scarlet and a rode nt1a

What people don't undestand is that these mixers get well recorded things. It's not rocket science.

 

[analag]

Watch these tutorials. The trick is in your template but first you need a good room, mic, mic pre and I use a good compressor to just kiss the peaks going into the box.

 

[PhilipMarlowe]

Watch these tutorials. The trick is in your template but first you need a good room, mic, mic pre and I use a good compressor to just kiss the peaks going into the box.

Yeah so in short: you need to spend some serious money. No other way around it. It sucks to hear this but I think it's being more honest than someone selling you prosumer gear and another variation of vintage emulation plugins.

 

[analag]

A good solid state mic will get you close (Lewitt 440 Pure etc), the Warm Audio WA73 is a pretty good pre. The hardware compressor is optional. ITB you want a clean comp like Waves RVox at the top of your insert channel, this will give you volume and clarity. So autotune or whatever first followed by the comp, then you address resonances with Okesound Soothe2 or do it manually with a good EQ, then de-ess. At this point you can start to make the vocal into what you want to hear. But at the end of the chain you de-ess again. Even without breaking the bank you can get super close to that sound. Just learn your tools and practice a lot.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Makes me think of the guy that says "I have a RCA 77 mic, a RCA 76D mixer and an Ampex 350; I wonder why I don't sound like Elvis...?"

 

[PhilipMarlowe]

A good solid state mic will get you close (Lewitt 440 Pure etc), the Warm Audio WA73 is a pretty good pre. The hardware compressor is optional. ITB you want a clean comp like Waves RVox at the top of your insert channel, this will give you volume and clarity. So autotune or whatever first followed by the comp, then you address resonances with Okesound Soothe2 or do it manually with a good EQ, then de-ess. At this point you can start to make the vocal into what you want to hear. But at the end of the chain you de-ess again. Even without breaking the bank you can get super close to that sound. Just learn your tools and practice a lot.

Fixing it in the mix hasn't worked well for me but if you're able to achieve the sound of a 30k dollar signal chain with a cheap mic and plugins then hats off to you.

 

[analag]

Patience and skills man. Know what your tools can do. Lots of people get intimidated by how much the signal chain cost and not by the raw talent of the mixer, lol. My entire signal chain is custom so I don't know what it's worth to the average Joe Blow, but to me, it's very hard to beat. I'm also a firm believer in plugins, which is why I keep upping my arsenal. I'm at the point where I want to see who can sound like me, not the other way around.

 

[PhilipMarlowe]

I'm not the one asking for advice, buddy.
If you think the jump in quality OP is referring to has nothing to do with the gear and all to do with his lacking mixing skills, that's on you (this is a diy gear forum by the way)

PS: If you look at pro tools sessions of "raw talented mixers" (LOL) you often see them having hardly any plugins on the main vocal because the vocal was already recorded so well ( meaning it went through tens of thousands of dollars of gear)
That's a fact, and anyone saying otherwise is a plugin manufactorer. Mixing skills are only a small part of the puzzle of this sound, and I'm saying this only to be truthful to OP.

 

[analag]

OK, I will looking into taking out a second mortgage on my house to buy the kind of equiptment you think it takes to get a well recorded sound...fhunny, lol.

 

[totoxraymond]

Even with the most expensive gear, someone has to set the knobs in the right position...

I tend to agree with @analag here, practice and learn.

Though it's very hard to overcome a bad recording. So you still need a good sounding room, a correct microphone and preamp/ad.

A good pair of properly setup monitors can't hurt. And fix your control room acoustics too. That's to get you started.

Cheers,

Thomas

 

[shot]

It's all about what you hear on your speakers and how you imagine vocal should sound. I would say "it's all in your head".
If you know how stellar mic sounds soloed on your speakers in your room then you can aim to get any vocal (recorded with an average mic) to sound exactly like that. That takes years of experience.

My vocal chain for years has been U47 clone (oliver archut version with maiku capsule and moby's transformer) into ez1290 preamp. And at one point I get to mix a rap album that was recorded by artist in his garage. He used behringer B1 mic into scarlett audio interface and recorded all his vocals holding that crappy mic in his hand. So it was supposed to be a nightmare. But since I knew what I was aiming for, I was able to eq it to the color I wanted. My standard was to aim for that neumannesque color I am used to. It just took a lot more time to get it - but it was doable. In the end noone believed it was behringer mic.

In my opinion plugins can be your biggest enemy. It's so easy to just open some plugin and start fiddling with it. It will always give you some result. But what you need to get is not "some result" but instead you need to get what your head imagines in the beginning. You need to know what you aim for. And that takes a lot of listening and experience.

The main difference between good and average gear is that with good gear you get immediate results. With average gear you have to work in mix to get it to sound right. But in the end it's not about the tools but about the skills.
In that regard, if you consider that time is money - better mic saves money!



Luka

 

[PhilipMarlowe]

OK, I will looking into taking out a second mortgage on my house to buy the kind of equiptment you think it takes to get a well recorded sound...fhunny, lol.

I'm not saying it takes serious money to get a good or interesting sound, I'm saying it takes serious money to get the sound OP wants- did you even read OP's post?

 

[analag]

I'm not saying it takes serious money to get a good or interesting sound, I'm saying it takes serious money to get the sound OP wants- did you even read OP's post?

Yeah I did. Did you?. All I'm saying is I didn't and I don't feel like the OP is looking for a sound that cannot be realized with sub 30k gear. To believe that is naivety at it's finest or ignorance or wowed by name brand gear. And other thing. Do you think owning a Lamborgini makes the owner a good driver, a good driver in a lesser car would show him up all day. I can get that flavor the OP wants with what I have right here in front of me. Can you prove me wrong? Or is your opinion absolute and final in this here sonic arena, lol.