ITA - ACS2B - Tube Console Restoration

[matriachamplification]

Hello friends of GDIY,

My wife found this console by chance searching for "Consolettes". Our small family builds are now affectionately being called "Custom Tube Consolettes".
As discussed some time ago, Mr. Thompson-Bell and our family have been working towards a Tube Tech course of some kind. We landed on a Console Design Masterclass with one of our first subjects pictured in this thread.
INDUSTRIAL TAPE APPLICATIONS - ACS2B - 10 CHANNEL TUBE BROADCAST CONSOLE
(Images supplied by the ebay seller)

Once we have this in our workshop we can begin to figure out what direction to take. What is an upgrade for the Dynaco A-410. Sowter is our goto.

More soon,

Wall and Family

 

[Ricardus]

Well isn't that an interesting little item!

 

[matriachamplification]

Well isn't that an interesting little item!

I am quite impressed with their find.

I've been having trouble learning how to design the master/monitor sections. This is our solution to help visualize how a console works in its bare form.

 

[Brian Roth]

ITA was a USA broadcast equipment manufacturer:

https://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/ita.htm
One of the founders left to found CCA:

https://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/cca.htm
While in High School I worked for a FM station that had one of the CCA Ultimate consoles shown on that page. Most all of the audio electronics consisted of Opamp Labs "cans", those modules with an 8 pin octal pinout.

Bri

 

[matriachamplification]

ITA was a USA broadcast equipment manufacturer:

https://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/ita.htm
One of the founders left to found CCA:

https://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/cca.htm
While in High School I worked for a FM station that had one of the CCA Ultimate consoles shown on that page. Most all of the audio electronics consisted of Opamp Labs "cans", those modules with an 8 pin octal pinout.

Bri

Thanks Brian! We have been having issues finding any info on ITA. Most was ads reffering to a London based shop which we felt was indication of origins. We were wrong! With this info we can adjust our heading. Thanks for sharing!

Wall and Family

 

[Brian Roth]

BTW.....why replace the Dynaco transformers? They had very good specs:

http://knob.planet.ee/kirjandus/books/Dynaco_Transformers.pdf
Or.....are you seeking a new part for a new build in year 2022? There is an entire universe of Dynaco fans out there and some companies sell new, replica parts.

Bri

PS, the old radio consoles included built-in power amps to drive the speakers in the station's control room. In the case of the ITA shown in the pix which was a stereo desk, two amps drove the CR speakers and the third drove the cue speaker mounted on the front plate of the mixer.

EDIT: Once I looked closer at the front panel pix, that was sort of an oddball. A "dual mono" desk, as "10 channels in, 2 buses out". Each mono input would feed one or the other mono outputs.

 

[matriachamplification]

BTW.....why replace the Dynaco transformers? They had very good specs:

Or.....are you seeking a new part for a new build in year 2022? There is an entire universe of Dynaco fans out there and some companies sell new, replica parts.

We are thinking of a rebuild using new parts but nothing is set in stone. The goal is to update it to a useable console for modern use.

One idea was to replace the front cue speaker with a talkback mic. Another is to gut it and encorporate Mr. Thompson-Bells CTC designs into the build. Add a fader pack using Jims Quadrant Fader design as well as some additions for controls.

Thoughts?

 

[mjrippe]

ITA is fairly rare stuff these days. I would agree with Brian re: Dynaco transformers. But of course you are free to do as you please

I have a pair of discrete mic preamps they built. I may have posted the schematic for them here somewhere. They use ADC inputs and UTC outputs and run on -24VDC. Never seen another pair.

 

[matriachamplification]

ITA is fairly rare stuff these days. I would agree with Brian re: Dynaco transformers.

After some discussion, ITA being rare find, my family decided we would like to restore it to its original glory. Dynaco Transformers will stay, given they are in working order.

Couple of questions.

The input sections located on each side. What kind of control knob is that? Thumb dial of some sort?

This feels like a much larger undertaking then the face plates we've been designing on Front Panel Designer.

How or who would we talk to about a fresh coat of paint?

Thanks

Wall and Family

 

[MidnightArrakis]

Hello friends fo GDIY,

My wife found this console by chance searching for "Consolettes". Our small family builds are now affectionately being called "Custom Tube Consolettes".
As discussed some time ago, Mr. Thompson-Bell and our family have been working towards a Tube Tech course of some kind. We landed on a Console Design Masterclass with one of our first subjects pictured in this thread.
INDUSTRIAL TAPE APPLICATIONS - ACS2B - 10 CHANNEL TUBE BROADCAST CONSOLE
(Images supplied by the ebay seller)

Once we have this in our workshop we can begin to figure out what direction to take. What is an upgrade for the Dynaco A-410. Sowter is our goto.

More soon,

Wall and Family

GREETINGS!!! I just stumbled across your posting and fell flat onto my face in the living room!!! I'm OK.....just a scraped shin is all. (ow...ow...ow...ow...ow)!!!

I am not exactly certain what it is that you are both looking for in personnel or what it is that you are fully attempting to accomplish, but my background is in the combined skill-set of performing both the mechanical sheet-metal designs and PCB designs of electronic equipment. As I have read through your posting a couple of times, I get the impression that what you are wishing to do is more along the lines of teaching the broadcast console circuitry design and wiring routing rather than what it takes to come up with all of the consolette mechanical design and fabrication details and how all of the PCB's, as well as all of the vacuum tubes, are designed and mounted within the console frame. At least, that is my understanding. Perhaps you may be able to more clearly clarify that.

My background also includes a long history within the "Professional Audio" industry, having both designed and built several rather large sound systems. My high point was in once working with "one of the largest concert sound-reinforcement companies in the world" where I not only ended up designing numerous pieces of in-house equipment for use within these concert systems, but also in the purchasing of literally millions of dollars of electronic and electro-mechanical component parts that were used to build the in-house designed equipment and the concert systems themselves.

More recently, I was "The Guy" that got hired by an R&D laboratory that was developing at the time a "never-been-done-before" technology, which was "how to simultaneously radio broadcast an analog and digital signal on the same frequency at the same time"!!! It was -- me -- who worked with the R&D engineers and I then performed both the mechanical chassis designs and all of the in-house laboratory PCB designs to create the "first working prototype" of what is now called "HD Radio". The attached PDF file will show you both my initial prototype chassis designs and the final "off-the-shelf" product design.

[How or who would we talk to about a fresh coat of paint?] -- You would first need to completely remove every last single component part and nut, bolt and washer from the console housing. Personally, I would take the metalwork to a place that does "powder-coating" and have them sandblast the metalwork down to bare metal. This powder-coating shop should have one or more paint sample books and from there, you can not only select what color that you would like but, unlike most paints, with powder-coating you can also select a variety of textures and finishes (i.e., matte, semi-gloss, high-gloss).

Somebody will need to come up with some new "artwork" that can either be silk-screened or you can use a newer "laser-etching" process to print the text and graphics onto the metalwork.

[We are thinking of a rebuild using new parts but nothing is set in stone] -- Well.....that's basically what it is that I do!!! And, not only that.....in addition, I have also been involved in doing "Reverse-Engineering" of both sheet-metal items and parts and even PCB's!!! As an example, some guy down in Florida bought a very used and very old API mixing console that was originally made back in 1974!!! This guy sent me one each of all of the different PCB's that were used within his console and I then "Reverse-Engineered" each one of them and created "New/Old" PCB's using old "Thru-Hole" technology parts that he could have replicated and then put inside is ancient and vintage console. Then, on the other hand, I was once contacted by a huge aerospace company that had somehow lost -- ALL -- of their original artwork and documentation to a -- hand-taped -- PCB that was originally designed back in 1979, again using "Thru-Hole" technology (of course, back then.....that is all that was available). The aerospace company sent to me their > LAST < physical bare-board and wanted me to "Reverse-Engineer" it completely (i.e., both mechanically and electrically, as they - had no - schematics!!!). The one main big difference between the aerospace project and the mixing console project was that the aerospace company - ALSO - wanted me to convert all of the component parts from "Thru-Hole" to "Surface-Mount" technology!!! So.....after I had completed their "New/Old" PCB design, I e-mailed them all of the fabrication files and they were then able to complete a major important project that allowed U.S. fighter jets to take-off and battle against "The Bad-Guys"!!! HOORAY!!!

If, after reading my long-winded personal history that you believe I am able to assist you in any way, just send me a PM and we can discuss this further, OK?

NOTE: Down in my basement studio I have a 15-Channel Stereo Broadcast Mixing Console by "Arrakis-Systems" out of Colorado.

I am looking forward to hearing back from you shortly.

Regards,

Jerry B. Williams
Senior Electronics Mechanical Packaging & PCB Designer

/



/

 

[matriachamplification]

I am not exactly certain what it is that you are both looking for in personnel or what it is that you are fully attempting to accomplish, but my background is in the combined skill-set of performing both the mechanical sheet-metal designs and PCB designs of electronic equipment. As I have read through your posting a couple of times, I get the impression that what you are wishing to do is more along the lines of teaching the broadcast console circuitry design and wiring routing rather than what it takes to come up with all of the consolette mechanical design and fabrication details and how all of the PCB's, as well as all of the vacuum tubes, are designed and mounted within the console frame. At least, that is my understanding. Perhaps you may be able to more clearly clarify that.

Hello MidnightArrakis,

thank you for sharing these uplifting notes. I should clarify that when my wife and children told me they bought vintage tube broadcast consoles I almost fell to the floor. At this point I am just rolling with it. Last week I asked for parts for an RCA Tube Compressor, I got an ITA 10 Channel Tube Broadcast Console.

We have no set agenda other then refurbishing consoles and building out Mr. Thompson-Bell's Custom Tube Console designs. If in the process we have enough content to put together a Masterclass, then we will.

I will definately follow up with a PM.

Wall and Family

 

[Brian Roth]

ITA is fairly rare stuff these days. I would agree with Brian re: Dynaco transformers. But of course you are free to do as you please

I have a pair of discrete mic preamps they built. I may have posted the schematic for them here somewhere. They use ADC inputs and UTC outputs and run on -24VDC. Never seen another pair.

All I recall about ITA was from I was a Youngster and wide eyed as a teenager in Okla. City in the late 1960's. I toured all the new FM stations, and the ones on an lesser budget had ITA gear (and then CCA). The Big Guys had RCA. etc.

I can recall seeing a broken-down/dead ITA FM transmitter in the "penthouse" of the Biltmore hotel a few months before urban renewal dropped that multi-story building. I was maybe age then 20 something...lol..and pondered how I could add that TX to my collection of Stuff before it was part of the demolition!! Bad idea ...my then-wife or Mom woulda been pissed if I parked it in the garage....lol.

Many early FM stations had TX and antennas on the high rise buildings back then....Biltmore was maybe 16 stories with a mast located at the top. Nowadays, the FM Big Dogs are part of 1500' sticks along with the TV stations in eastern OKC.

Anyway, CCA and ITA bring back memories! <g> My best memory was a CCA "Ultimate" console at KWHP which also had a CCA 3 kW FM TX. I was the overnight DJ on weekends in High Screwel.

Bri

 

[matriachamplification]

Anyway, CCA and ITA bring back memories! <g> My best memory was a CCA "Ultimate" console at KWHP which also had a CCA 3 kW FM TX. I was the overnight DJ on weekends in High Screwel.

Bri

We came accross a CCA Tube Compressor today. Very cool! Expensive too. Had no idea of either company before last week.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165103291090?hash=item2670ec4ad2:g:4a8AAOSwqHNgJHq0

 

[iampoor1]

Hah I was wondering who would end up with that! COngrats.

Small suggestion, before "upgrading" anything, make sure to measure and figure out what needs improving. I think you will have a hard time beating those Dynaco TX's for performance.

 

[matriachamplification]

Hah I was wondering who would end up with that! COngrats.

Small suggestion, before "upgrading" anything, make sure to measure and figure out what needs improving. I think you will have a hard time beating those Dynaco TX's for performance.

Hello iampoor1,

then you saw the listing? My wife is quite impressed with her find. Thank you for the words of encoragement!

Dynaco A-410 Transformers will be staying. The suggestion regarding measuring prior to improving is something we are looking forward to. We aim to learn a lot about documentation through this process. There is a lot to learn here

Thanks again!

Wallace and Family

 

[matriachamplification]

BTW.....why replace the Dynaco transformers? They had very good specs:

http://knob.planet.ee/kirjandus/books/Dynaco_Transformers.pdf

Thanks to Mr. Roth we have a place to start and after some research that included learning a bit about David Haufler and Dynaco. We were thriled to read on GDIY from JR that Radial, a Canadian company, had at some point revived the brand. Here is where we landed on reverse engineering the ACS2B.

Dynaco A-410: Type MA-2A Mon. Amp

Dynaco A-410 documentation included the schematics Figure-3.
"Low Power High Quality Circuit which can be used to Improve the Quality of Commercial Amplifiers."

The pair of "Type MA-2A Mon Amp" in the ACS2B indicate 6AQ5A Tubes and not the EL-84' shown. In small print is the modification to use 6AQ5A' in place of the EL-84'.



Knowing looks can be deciving, is the MA-2A not similar to the Dynaco A-410 Figure 3 Schematic?

Furthermore we have noticed some similarities in the ACS2B and the RCA BC-6A Dual Channel Tube Broadcast Consolette. For now we are leaning on this document for some insight into these vintage desks and how they are built.

Wall and Family

 

[ruffrecords]

HI Wall. The EL84 and 6AQ5 tubes are exact equivalents. EL84 is just the European equivalent just like the ECC83 is the same as a 12AX7.

Cheers

Ian

 

[mjrippe]

HI Wall. The EL84 and 6AQ5 tubes are exact equivalents. EL84 is just the European equivalent just like the ECC83 is the same as a 12AX7.

Cheers

Ian

Sorry Ian, but the 6BQ5 is the US version of EL84. 6AQ5 is a 7 pin beam power tube which is similar to 6V6 "when used within it's maximum ratings". [RCA RC-30 Receiving Tube Manual]

 

[iampoor1]

Pull out the amps and reverse engineer them. They are probably pretty simple, and actually drawing out tube circuits is going to make you get MUCH better at working on them I promise.

 

[matriachamplification]

DYNACO DAVE. This is the name of our partnering Tube Collector.

He and his son have a huge collection of old tubes. We are looking at outfitting this console with Dynaco branded tubes.

How is that for an interesting turn of events!