Mid Side - does cable length affect the phase/delay of stereo result?

[canidoit]

If I was to use a hardware M/S unit, and for example:
Mid: Equaliser (6 meters away)
Side: Equaliser (30cms away)

Does the length of cable cause a delay when the M/S comes together causing a phasing in the stereo audio?
When there is a delay between Mid and Side, when it is summed back to stereo, what are the artefacts? - phasing, center is off, distortion?

Thank you.

 

[JohnRoberts]

no....

JR

 

[k brown]

no....

JR

Couldn'a said it better myself.

 

[pucho812]

I did some digging on this.

A good approximation of electrons in a wire is 11 inches of travel every nanosecond. I saw this on a science show years back and it's one of those Many audio factoids I keep in the brain bank. Just like how sound proximately travels 1100 feet every second at 72 degrees in temperature.
Anyway if the 11 inches in a nanosecond is true, we can say the speed of light through the cable is 11/12 ns/ft (considering impedance). Considering it is a minimum 20ms for our brains to interpret a delay, then the length of cable necessary to produce an audible delay is approximately 3,472 miles, or roughly the distance between Washington, DC and Sacramento, CA.

You will find that there are other things that are more likely to cause an audible delay then the cable itself.

 

[micolas]

@pucho812
About what would be the delay in the case of the distance from the Earth to the Third Stone from the Sun?
(I apologize, I couldn't help myself, sometimes my humor gets out of control )

 

[k brown]

I did some digging on this.

A good approximation of electrons in a wire is 11 inches of travel every nanosecond. I saw this on a science show years back and it's one of those Many audio factoids I keep in the brain bank. Just like how sound proximately travels 1100 feet every second at 72 degrees in temperature.
Anyway if the 11 inches in a nanosecond is true, we can say the speed of light through the cable is 11/12 ns/ft (considering impedance). Considering it is a minimum 20ms for our brains to interpret a delay, then the length of cable necessary to produce an audible delay is approximately 3,472 miles, or roughly the distance between Washington, DC and Sacramento, CA.

You will find that there are other things that are more likely to cause an audible delay then the cable itself.

One's horoscopic sign probably has more effect.

 

[pucho812]

One's horoscopic sign probably has more effect.

that was really funny.

 

[capacitorless]

Low Earth Orbit here (.63 to 6.2ms latency for 110 to 1200 miles of cable)

 

[canidoit]

Why is it though that I get a delay on my midi cable, that is 6 meters long when I play keyboard to my DAW? A 1 meter cable is unnoticeable when playing but when I used a 6 meter cable, there is a noticeable delay?

 

[radardoug]

Why dont you research before asking these kinds of questions? Midi is not audio. Midi has a baud rate of 31.25 KB/s. It takes time for a MIDI signal to be sent and interpreted. Not a lot though. See if you can research how much. Come back to class with the answer.
By the way, the MIDI cable is not doing the delay.

 

[k brown]

Why is it though that I get a delay on my midi cable, that is 6 meters long when I play keyboard to my DAW? A 1 meter cable is unnoticeable when playing but when I used a 6 meter cable, there is a noticeable delay?

You forget that Data was not human . . .

 

[canidoit]

Hi radardoug, the theory is way ahead of me. Thanks for your explanation and pucho812 as it provided it to me in laymans terms or something I can try to grasp with. Now I have terms and concepts to gain a better understanding of it which I can dig deeper into and put in practice. I mainly just plug cables and see/hear what happens.

 

[micolas]

You guys are amazing!
There is still hope in the world.
Great humor. We're a cool bunch.

 

[Newmarket]

Why dont you research before asking these kinds of questions? Midi is not audio. Midi has a baud rate of 31.25 KB/s. It takes time for a MIDI signal to be sent and interpreted. Not a lot though. See if you can research how much. Come back to class with the answer.
By the way, the MIDI cable is not doing the delay.

True but doesn't account for the perceived delay with a longer MIDI cable. I suspect it's something in the DAW / computer setup being different. I suggest to OP to try with a hardware sound module if wishing to investigate this. Plus is it a real MIDI cable or MIDI over USB ?

 

[tinn]

Why is it though that I get a delay on my midi cable, that is 6 meters long when I play keyboard to my DAW? A 1 meter cable is unnoticeable when playing but when I used a 6 meter cable, there is a noticeable delay?

Maybe your ears have been 6m away from the speaker then ? (17msec)

 

[Matt Nolan]

I did some digging on this.

A good approximation of electrons in a wire is 11 inches of travel every nanosecond.

Just a little pedantry here, but in the spirit of education. Electrons in a wire move at somewhere closer to a few millimeters per second. Your 11 inches per nanosecond is the speed of the wavefront. Think of it more like a Newton's Cradle or whipping a long rope (not perfect analogies, but examples of wavefronts moving somewhat independently of the actual material through which they propagate).

 

[Newmarket]

Just a little pedantry here, but in the spirit of education. Electrons in a wire move at somewhere closer to a few millimeters per second. Your 11 inches per nanosecond is the speed of the wavefront. Think of it more like a Newton's Cradle or whipping a long rope (not perfect analogies, but examples of wavefronts moving somewhat independently of the actual material through which they propagate).

fwiw I do think that's it's good to clarify that point.