MK67 - new U67 clone coming up

[micaddict]

The late Oliver Archut (what a loss) was very fond of the E80f, too. At one point he claimed it was indeed even better than the Telefunken EF86. But later he changed his mind and said he preferred the Telefunken, in any case for the U67, soundwise. He had collected 10,000 plus of the latter, last I heard.

 

[dmp]

?? A new K67 from Sennheiser is about $550. Are you in the USA?

Confirmed, I emailed Sennheiser USA:

  Yes we do still stock those capsuls as part #053225 for $553.38 each. Please call our sales dep. at 860-434-9190 x1 to order one.

 

[Category 5]

Got it.  Will call them.  Was going by this but last time I checked it was like $1003.00  That's great if it's true because I still see it as over $800 on their current site.

http://spares.sennheiser.co.uk/neumann/u87a/k67-k87a-k870-neumann-capsule--for--u67-u77-u87a---not-suitable-u87.html

 

[Melodeath00]

That's the UK site. The price isn't applicable. The price dmp just posted is the exact price and part number they quoted me a few weeks ago. I didn't buy then, but I will once I see the price of the overall MK67 kit.

 

[kidvybes]

The late Oliver Archut (what a loss) was very fond of the E80f, too. At one point he claimed it was indeed even better than the Telefunken EF86. But later he changed his mind and said he preferred the Telefunken, in any case for the U67, soundwise. He had collected 10,000 plus of the latter, last I heard.

True Henk!...Oliver recommended the Valvo E80F to me a few years ago (my avatar!) to replace a quality EF86, and I found it to be superior in my application at the time (Stellar CM-6, simple plate-follower circuit)...same manufacturing source for the E80F (Valvo E80F, Amperex PQ 6084 or Phillips SQ E80F)...he also suggested it in archived posts on this Neumann forum discussion:

http://www.neumann.com/forums/view.php?bn=neumann_archive&key=1015336865&v=f

 

[micaddict]

Yup.

OK, let's keep Oliver alive.
http://prorecordingworkshop.lefora.com/topic/3849602/EF86-manufacturer-recommendations#.VFEpPiKG--E
http://prorecordingworkshop.lefora.com/topic/4190650/What-brand-tube-would-you-suggest-for-my-vintage-U67#.VFEquiKG--E
http://www.tab-funkenwerk.com/id25.html

 

[micaddict]

Still looking for Oliver's later life opinion on the E80F.

Meanwhile, here's Klaus Heyne's opinion:
http://repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=36566.0

 

[kidvybes]

Still looking for Oliver's later life opinion on the E80F.

Meanwhile, here's Klaus Heyne's opinion:
http://repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=36566.0

...Oliver recommended the Valvo E80F to me in late 2010...years later, we discussed the EF806s variants as well...as for Klaus, I'm accustomed to reading numerous opinions counterpoint to Oliver's...no disrespect, but I tend to favor Oliver's recommendations...he also told not to underestimate the Mullard EF86, though different than the Telefunkens in tonal quality...

...in particular, I thought this paragraph in one of Oliver's posts was most telling:

"One reason why Neumann original used the Valvo EF86 instead of the Telefunken EF86 was not only price, Valvo cost 1/3 less than Telefunken, it was that Valvo tubes worked better in tube mic circuits. A standard Valvo EF86 was about DM1.95 in 1962, just a bit under the technical performance of a Telefunken made EF806s that went for DM16.00 in 1962. The E80F was DM25.00. The E80F was mostly used as an electrometer tube and circuit were high grid leaks were needed, like O-scopes, etc. not used in consumer electronics like the EF86. It is still easy to find and works great in all applications that ask for a EF86/806s?. One minor problem is the taller size than EF86, but it fits without any big problems in U67s?. E80F made by Valvo were sold here in the US under the Amperex brand as 6084."
Best regards,
Oliver

 

[micaddict]

no disrespect, but I tend to favor Oliver's recommendations

Me too, Dennis.

 

[Category 5]

I've never been too content (even with tubes I found to sound excellent) to stop trying every flavor of tube I can get my hands on anyway.  Many folks say they experience no discernable difference between tube swaps while I usually find the differences to be drmatic.  I guess it's in the ear of the beholder, but the guy in Bulgaria selling the Philips branded SQ E80F's is selling them pretty cheap.  The better known Valvos are the same tubes with different paint.  Certainly a good EF86 be it Telefunken, Mullard, or any other brand will certainly sound good in the U67 since the circuit was made for it, but I'm sure you'll pay a premium and not necessarily realize proportional benefit (or even any benefit at all in many cases).

Thanks for the info on the capsules guys.  I guess I was misled by the UK site but the US site has no info and the guy at Sennheiser I spoke to said he "had to get back to me after consulting with their Neumann specialist".  He didn't even see the part in their system (K870 or K67).  I already ordered one from this other guy and paid a little over $100 more but if I get what was promised I'll chock it up to a life lesson. 

I found mention that the genuine Neumann parts are assembled in halves which are then matched and paired into whole capsules.  For this reason alone they will always exceed the quality of any re-skin or capsules made one at a time, at least in fig8 and omni modes.

In Cardioid mode I have to imagine that well done re-skins and replica capsules can and will sound excellent in their own right.

 

[kcatthedog]

Thx cat5 for the tube link; just grabbed 2 !

you know what's happening with my  other cap  so a $100 premium sounds pretty good to me

say no more !

 

[G-Sun]

This kit is designed to fit Chunger's SYT-5 bodies and a bundle will become available through his store.

Interested in this one.
Will it be a complete kit like the MK47, partial or just separate items?

 

[chunger]

Starting out this likely will not be a complete kit but pretty close.

The only parts that would be missing are:

- tube
- capsule

Available through my webstore soon:

- mic kit via ioaudio (PCB's, Acrylic board, electronic components, transformer)
- SYT-5 body kit
- Gotham GAC-7 cable (or cheap Chinese cable)
- Alctron PS100 power supply (recommended build modifies the stock PCB)

I am also coordinating with Eric Heiserman about using his HK67 capsule, but I don't want to make any kit plans until I actually hear the capsule in the mic against a new production Neumann capsule which at this point seems to be the internet consensus "gold standard".

This should make it about as complete as kits get these days.  The main difficulty stocking tested OEM tubes and premium capsules is I pretty much just pass them through which means I pre-pay for very expensive parts that carry little to no margins.  The attempt will be to keep a small number in stock and see what the demand ends up being.

 

[dmp]

Awesome!
I do not like kits since it takes the individuality out of it.
Ideally, I'd like to get the PCBs and the mic body, and get the electronic components myself.  I most likely have all the components already. 

 

[chunger]

I also generally list everything separately without any cost penalties as many DIY'ers have specific preferences for various components often sourced from different vendors.  Kits are mostly for convenience and ease of access.

. . .but, I would have to talk to ioaudio about splitting his "kit".  That is a decision he will make.  My job is to preserve the integrity of his project in the manner he wants to present it.

 

[mica]

When will the kit be available to buy in your shop? I have an itchy "add-to-basket" finger here..

/M

 

[kidvybes]

FYI: I have found a reliable tube source here in the US for the 6084 (E80F) tubes...he generally has either the Amperex or the same tube re-branded for Zaerix (a UK based company that originally supplied the British military with tubes)...they go for $20 per tube:

http://www.esrcvacuumtubes.com/vacuumtubes_tubelist_tubes_FM1000-9006.html

 

[chunger]

When will the kit be available to buy in your shop? I have an itchy "add-to-basket" finger here..

/M

Kits are live now on the webstore.

 

[micaddict]

OK, so I came very close to ordering some of those E80Fs from Bulgaria (gone now, of course).
But then  I remembered  an old Gearslutz post by Christian Whitmore ("Bowie") who is one of the most respected tube dealers around. Many people praise his expertise and ears, as well as his service.

I feel that Telefunkens and L-code Amperex are two of the finest EF86s. Mullards can sound gorgeous too (in a darker, warmer way) but they are not quite as reliable so I'm always hesitant when recommending them. You have to be really careful because these companies re-branded their EF86s like crazy so a lot of the Telefunkens are not true Telefunkens, etc. Valvo also made a good EF86 for the money. No EF86 brand is great when it comes to consistently low noise and that's a big reason why this beautiful sounding tube isn't used in more applications. Like most tubes, you have to either get a low noise selected piece, try several, hope that your random piece is low noise, or put up with the noise.

I personally I haven't found a situation in which I've found a Phillips/Valvo E80F to be prefferable to a high-end EF86. In my experience, the E80F has thinned out the low-mids too much for my taste. They are a quality tube though and the price is much lower than a high-end EF86. Some people like them, some don't. Like everything, it's a matter of taste. In comparison to a newer EF86 (like the stock Tung Sol re-issue) they'll usually sound great! There's an electrical difference in the heater that makes me uncertain about long-term reliability in an EF86 circuit. I've seen mixed opinions in this regard but most people seem to be getting reasonable life out of them. I tend to favor real-world experience over design theory.

Now I happen to own about two dozen L-code Amperex (well, Philips in fact). So in the end I decided not to chase yet another tail.
Still, the microphone addict in me tells me I should have bought at least a pair of those E80Fs at that price (clean looking boxes too BTW).

Oh well, maybe later.
I do hope to get some reviews from you guys soon. 

 

[kidvybes]

OK, so I came very close to ordering some of those E80Fs from Bulgaria (gone now, of course).
But then  I remembered  an old Gearslutz post by Christian Whitmore ("Bowie") who is one of the most respected tube dealers around. Many people praise his expertise and ears, as well as his service.

I feel that Telefunkens and L-code Amperex are two of the finest EF86s. Mullards can sound gorgeous too (in a darker, warmer way) but they are not quite as reliable so I'm always hesitant when recommending them. You have to be really careful because these companies re-branded their EF86s like crazy so a lot of the Telefunkens are not true Telefunkens, etc. Valvo also made a good EF86 for the money. No EF86 brand is great when it comes to consistently low noise and that's a big reason why this beautiful sounding tube isn't used in more applications. Like most tubes, you have to either get a low noise selected piece, try several, hope that your random piece is low noise, or put up with the noise.

I personally I haven't found a situation in which I've found a Phillips/Valvo E80F to be prefferable to a high-end EF86. In my experience, the E80F has thinned out the low-mids too much for my taste. They are a quality tube though and the price is much lower than a high-end EF86. Some people like them, some don't. Like everything, it's a matter of taste. In comparison to a newer EF86 (like the stock Tung Sol re-issue) they'll usually sound great! There's an electrical difference in the heater that makes me uncertain about long-term reliability in an EF86 circuit. I've seen mixed opinions in this regard but most people seem to be getting reasonable life out of them. I tend to favor real-world experience over design theory.

Now I happen to own about two dozen L-code Amperex (well, Philips in fact). So in the end I decided not to chase yet another tail.
Still, the microphone addict in me tells me I should have bought at least a pair of those E80Fs at that price (clean looking boxes too BTW).

Oh well, maybe later.
I do hope to get some reviews from you guys soon. 

...Henk, I remember that thread, and I believe I may have chimed in to disagree...at least in the case of the Stellar CM-6 (a simple plate-follower circuit similar to the Gefell UM92)...everyone I recommended the E80F as a replacement for the stock TungSol EF806s reported audible improvement with the swap...of course, that was an upgrade from a newly manufactured, albeit good tube, but I have also compared with number of NOS EF86 (Mullard, Amperex, Telefunken) and found the E80F at least as good and better than some...if you already have a cache of good quality NOS EF86 tubes, then I don't believe you'll need to seek out an E80F, but I suspect curiosity with prevail and down the road you'll happen upon a good deal to satisfy your tube lust...the E80F is an elegant tube, and I've found them to be consistently good in quality (Philips, Valvo and Amperex)...