Neumann TLM103 capsule - the best affordable replacement?

[tadejm]

Hello!

I've already read almost all the threads on this forum regarding TLM103 capsule, but I'll ask again anyway, maybe someone has come to a personal conclusion and can give personal advice... from the 1st hand

I am looking for a new capsule for TLM103. The microphone was damaged in the floods. I carefully cleaned the capsule with distilled water under the microscope. Otherwise it works fine, but sounds a little "thinner" than my other - intact TLM103. I THINK there is visible damage around the screw in the middle... I guess that affects the sound?

So I'm looking for a capsule replacement. The original is absolutely too expensive (around 400 EUR). On the other hand I would not like to buy a non-original and the sound will be the same or worse than it is now with original cleaned capsule ) You know what I mean.

I also wrote Mr. Thiersch but hasn't replied yet...

Thanks!

 

[MagnetoSound]

Probably an Arienne Audio K87 from soliloqueen.

 

[ElSmurf]

+1 for the Arienne K87

 

[soliloqueen]

I might be able to make a k103 actually. Could be fun. I need to get an fr reference capsule though since I took apart the only one I have. I have all the parts ready to make a k103 but I'm not sure about the level of interest. I can confirm that my newest version of my capsule sounds good in a flat circuit but it won't sound the same as a k103. People say a k87 sounds better in a tlm103 but it's a matter of taste

 

[kingkorg]

Hello!

I've already read almost all the threads on this forum regarding TLM103 capsule, but I'll ask again anyway, maybe someone has come to a personal conclusion and can give personal advice... from the 1st hand

I am looking for a new capsule for TLM103. The microphone was damaged in the floods. I carefully cleaned the capsule with distilled water under the microscope. Otherwise it works fine, but sounds a little "thinner" than my other - intact TLM103. I THINK there is visible damage around the screw in the middle... I guess that affects the sound?

So I'm looking for a capsule replacement. The original is absolutely too expensive (around 400 EUR). On the other hand I would not like to buy a non-original and the sound will be the same or worse than it is now with original cleaned capsule ) You know what I mean.

I also wrote Mr. Thiersch but hasn't replied yet...

Thanks!

I don't actually see anything particularly wrong with it. Your ears could be playing tricks on you. Place your intact mic and damaged one at same exact position in front of a speaker (millimeters count!) and record some pink/white noise. Compare the waveforms, do a null test between the two.

 

[Tim Campbell]

I agree with kingkorg, it might be perception in that I would imagine water damage would make the capsule noisy or perhaps lose output not change the freq. response. Try putting it in a plasic bag with one of these moisture pouches in a warm room for a couple of days.

 

[soliloqueen]

is it possible that the issue (if any) could be in the circuit, which was presumably also exposed to the water?

 

[soliloqueen]

capsules are extremely robust. They're easy to damage in certain specific situations (Like if you have a screwdriver or soldering iron near them) which leads to understandable caution, but people way overplay how vulnerable they are to other forms of harm. They're two solid metal chunks bolted to one of the world's most inert plastics, coated with the least reactive substance known to science. I have seen K103s so damaged and coated in junk that you can't even see through the membrane anymore and they sound fine. Intermittent sometimes, but the sound is still fine. Was the sound intermittent before you cleaned it?

How precisely did you clean it with distilled water? I ask because the damage around the center termination is all in one "direction", in a straight line like there's "sliding" damage of some kind. This specific sort of damage could mess with the membrane's tension, but it's unlikely to happen from water damage alone. There needs to be force on the capsule. This could, unfortunately, happen by mistake while cleaning the capsule.

Are you comfortable swapping the capsules to see if the problem follows the capsule?

 

[tadejm]

Thanks everyone for the replies!
Today I will record a comparison with white noise at the same position...


@soliloqueen I cleaned with distilled water and really soft brush, without any pressure. This "damage" that is visible was already there before I started cleaning, which is strange to me. I thought it was mud, so I wanted to clean it... But apparently it's not, because it doesn't go away. Elsewhere, there were more "dried drops" that partially went away with distilled water and a brush. I didn't want to put pressure on.
The sound was VERY thin before cleaning. After cleaning it is 90% comparable to my other TLM103 which is OK.
Therefore, I don't know if this difference is due to the visible "damage" on the capsule, or if it could also be the tolerance between the microphones / capsules.
When I tried swapping the capsule from the "intact" microphone to this damaged one, the sound was identical to the undamaged one. So PCB is ok..
But it is true that there is a different series of microphone with a different PCB.

 

[MagnetoSound]

Under the centre screw in the diaphragm is a spacer, like a washer. The damage in your photo looks rather like the outline of the spacer. Perhaps someone blew hard on the diaphragm causing a slight crease in the gold around the spacer?

 

[tadejm]

Under the centre screw in the diaphragm is a spacer, like a washer. The damage in your photo looks rather like the outline of the spacer. Perhaps someone blew hard on the diaphragm causing a slight crease in the gold around the spacer?

Possibly... Rockers have strong vocals

 

[MagnetoSound]

Plosives, idiots who blow into mics or use compressed air to clean capsules are all possible causes of this.

 

[ZHOUJUN]

One of my Neumann 103 capsules was also damaged，The diaphragm was a little dirty at first， After cleaning it, I found that it was wrinkled， I tried stretching it and then fixing it with glue, but they all failed. After removing the stain, I had to give it a He replaced a piece of skin, which I peeled off from a damaged Neumann K87 capsule. I also used a traction membrane, and the transplant was successful in the end. I think the skin replacement is closer to the original sound, and of course the membrane The tension of the tablet cannot be exactly the same as before, but I tried my best, and I think it has been restored to at least 90%，The new Neumann one is too expensive, and the replica will not be more suitable, so I also draw a piece of advice, if the capsule starts to sound normal, It's best not to try to clean it.

 

[micolas]

Hi,Tadejm

Place each tlm103 separately, (and the one that was not affected), in an airtight plastic bag with several sachets of silica gel desiccant each, for several days. Then compare them with pink noise and inverted phase test.

 

[Sidebstudio]

One of my Neumann 103 capsules was also damaged，The diaphragm was a little dirty at first， After cleaning it, I found that it was wrinkled， I tried stretching it and then fixing it with glue, but they all failed. After removing the stain, I had to give it a He replaced a piece of skin, which I peeled off from a damaged Neumann K87 capsule. I also used a traction membrane, and the transplant was successful in the end. I think the skin replacement is closer to the original sound, and of course the membrane The tension of the tablet cannot be exactly the same as before, but I tried my best, and I think it has been restored to at least 90%，The new Neumann one is too expensive, and the replica will not be more suitable, so I also draw a piece of advice, if the capsule starts to sound normal, It's best not to try to clean it.



View attachment 118588View attachment 118589View attachment 118595View attachment 118593View attachment 118592

Hi
Have you got a photo of the disassembled capsule during the process? I'm trying to repair one but I think that someone tried before to fix it.
Started a thread about it to understand if Neumann use spacers under the mylar.
Can you confirm that this particular capsule is milled in a way that spacers are not necessary at all?
Have got the common spacer under the center screw as the others Neumann capsules?
Thanks

 

[soliloqueen]

Hi
Have you got a photo of the disassembled capsule during the process? I'm trying to repair one but I think that someone tried before to fix it.
Started a thread about it to understand if Neumann use spacers under the mylar.
Can you confirm that this particular capsule is milled in a way that spacers are not necessary at all?
Have got the common spacer under the center screw as the others Neumann capsules?
Thanks

I could swear I answered this last time you asked. Neumann k103 capsules don't have spacers under the mylar, even in the center. The center acrylic protrudes above the plate.
Ring:

Center acrylic:

Electrode surface:


so, ~40um machined space, which is typical for Neumann.

injured my thumb fixing a mic so sorry if that's a little gross.

 

[soliloqueen]

Yes, you already answered but this one is old and damaged in backplate (but this is another story... I'm still trying to fix it).
I don't why the one I have hasn't the specs you measured in the image. I'll post them.
The provenience of the capsule I have is not clear at all so I'm not sure what they did on it.

the tlm 103 came out after neumann started gap cutting their capsules again. k103s that use spacers don't exist, to my knowledge (someone correct me). the plate I just posted was from the late 2000s I think, judging by the stark white, extremely brittle nylon(?) rings.

 

[tadejm]

Hello!

I just recorded white noise (MIC position is 1m away from the speaker). Both microphones (undamaged and damaged) were in exactly the same position.
It sounds like the "damaged one" has a bit of a high shelf. But maybe it's just a tolerance and it's as it should be?

Link: TLM103 white noise test

 

[micolas]

tadejm

In the daw you use, reverse the phase of one of the microphones by 180° and play, you can also bounce, export.
What is heard is the sonic difference between the microphones.

 

[Sidebstudio]

the tlm 103 came out after neumann started gap cutting their capsules again. k103s that use spacers don't exist, to my knowledge (someone correct me). the plate I just posted was from the late 2000s I think, judging by the stark white, extremely brittle nylon(?) rings.

I deleted my post because I want to post measurements of the one I have here.
Thanks for sharing your experience