Neumann TLM103 capsule - the best affordable replacement?

[tadejm]

Another "TEST", just for fun... I'm not a singer (only for testing, LOL), so I apologize, even for the bad pronunciation

Preamp: Neve 1073dpa, NO EQ, NO compression. It is recorded twice. So there is a different "interpretation".
The distance from the microphone is the same in both cases.

Link: TLM103 VOCAL

 

[tadejm]

tadejm

In the daw you use, reverse the phase of one of the microphones by 180° and play, you can also bounce, export.
What is heard is the sonic difference between the microphones.

I tried, but white noise obviously does not work on this principle (because it is "randomly" generated). So when I reverse the phase I get full signal back, with negligible difference. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong...

 

[MagnetoSound]

I could swear I answered this last time you asked. Neumann k103 capsules don't have spacers under the mylar, even in the center. The center acrylic protrudes above the plate.

I stand corrected. But whatever protrudes does the same job. It distances the diaphragm from the backplate in the centre of the capsule. Right? The crease in the diaphragm follows the same pattern.

 

[soliloqueen]

I stand corrected. But whatever protrudes does the same job. It distances the diaphragm from the backplate in the centre of the capsule. Right? The crease in the diaphragm follows the same pattern.

Yes, and in one specific direction if you look closely, like it slid along it or maybe the water had space to creep in one direction but not another. That's what I meant in the initial post. it could also be from air pressure like you said, but the shape is suspicious to me.

Edit:
If you look closely you can see that damage is in this direction


I'm not as good at drawing the arrows with a mouse as the line, look at the line

 

[soliloqueen]

I'm guessing the water was able to get under the washer and infiltrate the gap around the acrylic and that's what we're looking at? Washing even with distilled water isn't ideal, since it can still absorb minerals and drive them further into the capsule through capillary action... Let me take a listen to the noise.

 

[soliloqueen]

Another "TEST", just for fun... I'm not a singer (only for testing, LOL), so I apologize, even for the bad pronunciation

Preamp: Neve 1073dpa, NO EQ, NO compression. It is recorded twice. So there is a different "interpretation".
The distance from the microphone is the same in both cases.

Link: TLM103 VOCAL

is the water damaged one mic 2?

 

[tadejm]

is the water damaged one mic 2?

Yes, MIC2 is damaged.

 

[soliloqueen]

I've heard capsules sound like this after shearing trauma on the diaphragm. Annoying issue. Difficult to diagnose with noise or an FR sweep as it's a dynamic issue. This is a very minor case. I would suggest leaving it like it is and compensating with EQ.

 

[kingkorg]

Hello!

I just recorded white noise (MIC position is 1m away from the speaker). Both microphones (undamaged and damaged) were in exactly the same position.
It sounds like the "damaged one" has a bit of a high shelf. But maybe it's just a tolerance and it's as it should be?

Link: TLM103 white noise test

This is the difference between the takes. Imho this is well within production tolerances, ageing diferently... I wouldn't change that capsule or worry about it. Also if there were any significant damage there would be larger level difference.

 

[ZHOUJUN]

Hi
Have you got a photo of the disassembled capsule during the process? I'm trying to repair one but I think that someone tried before to fix it.
Started a thread about it to understand if Neumann use spacers under the mylar.
Can you confirm that this particular capsule is milled in a way that spacers are not necessary at all?
Have got the common spacer under the center screw as the others Neumann capsules?
Thanks

My 103 capsule doesn't use any gaskets, that's for sure.

 

[Sidebstudio]

My 103 capsule doesn't use any gaskets, that's for sure.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
I believe that this kind of forum are useful for sharing direct experience on subjects that are not usually discussed.
This is the reason I asked twice about k103 original construction because when you have to reskin "first hand" a capsule is clear disassembling the anatomy of it, but if you have a messy capsule like the one I get it's fundamental having a first hand experience about the subject.
Before deleting your post your message is "most Neumann capsules doesn't use any spacer" and it's not true in my experience.
All vintage and modern k87/807/47 use spacers.
And this is the reason I always trust to direct experience on subjects and always want to have a direct experience and evaluate well things I found on forums .

 

[soliloqueen]

modern k870s only use a single foil spacer between the halves and modern k47s don't use a spacer at all iirc. vintage unit construction for k87s and k67s is highly variable decade by decade but generally used 3 spacers until somewhat recently. I personally have not seen a k47 with a spacer yet, but I don't know they don't exist. the gap cutting by lathe isn't really superior to using spacers in a technical sense, but it seems it's "pride in one's work" IE they do it for fun. i understand that, the thrill of "look how close i can get this tolerance!" when you're doing stuff yourself.

 

[Sidebstudio]

modern k870s only use a single foil spacer between the halves and modern k47s don't use a spacer at all iirc. vintage unit construction for k87s and k67s is highly variable decade by decade but generally used 3 spacers until somewhat recently. I personally have not seen a k47 with a spacer yet, but I don't know they don't exist. the gap cutting by lathe isn't really superior to using spacers in a technical sense, but it seems it's "pride in one's work" IE they do it for fun. i understand that, the thrill of "look how close i can get this tolerance!" when you're doing stuff yourself.

Usually I reskin damaged capsules so most of the time are vintage Neumann (and other manufacturers but we are talking about Neumann here).
I don't disassemble capsule to clone or study them.
K47 vintage has spacers. Next time I have to reskin one I'll post a photo of the process.
As I Already stated in my previous post, if you base on your direct experience you could write that any other k47 hasn't a spacer but it's not my experience.
I repeat me but this is why I asked twice about k103.
Experience is based on experience and many times on internet is easy to write something "absolute" as a statement while it's only relative to someone 's experience.

 

[soliloqueen]

Usually I reskin damaged capsules so most of the time are vintage Neumann (and other manufacturers but we are talking about Neumann here).
I don't disassemble capsule to clone or study them.
K47 vintage has spacers. Next time I have to reskin one I'll post a photo of the process.
As I Already stated in my previous post, if you base on your direct experience you could write that any other k47 hasn't a spacer but it's not my experience.
I repeat me but this is why I asked twice about k103.
Experience is based on experience and many times on internet is easy to write something "absolute" as a statement while it's only relative to someone 's experience.

i've only taken apart 15 vintage k47s, which is obviously not a huge amount compared to the number out there. i can't recall how many used center termination spacers but none used ring spacers yet. do you know what years the ones that used spacers were?

 

[ZHOUJUN]

Thanks for sharing your experience.
I believe that this kind of forum are useful for sharing direct experience on subjects that are not usually discussed.
This is the reason I asked twice about k103 original construction because when you have to reskin "first hand" a capsule is clear disassembling the anatomy of it, but if you have a messy capsule like the one I get it's fundamental having a first hand experience about the subject.
Before deleting your post your message is "most Neumann capsules doesn't use any spacer" and it's not true in my experience.
All vintage and modern k87/807/47 use spacers.
And this is the reason I always trust to direct experience on subjects and always want to have a direct experience and evaluate well things I found on forums .

I'm sorry, but in fact I rarely see spacers used on the front of Neumann 34MM capsule plates，Only some K87s use them to isolate the two back plates, so for the sake of rigor, I modified it.

 

[Sidebstudio]

I'm sorry, but in fact I rarely see spacers used on the front of Neumann 34MM capsule plates. Only some K87s use them to isolate the two back plates, so for the sake of rigor, I modified it.

I usually don't take photo of the process but I found this on my phone.
This is a 70ies k87 (isolated backplates).
Has spacers in ring and in center.
Also the 80ies has the same type of construction

 

[Sidebstudio]

These are the 2 different k87. Same internal construction

 

[soliloqueen]

Here's one of my plate references (mid 60s) and its ring spacer

 

[ZHOUJUN]

I usually don't take photo of the process but I found this on my phone.
This is a 70ies k87 (isolated backplates).
Has spacers in ring and in center.
Also the 80ies has the same type of construction

Thank you so much for sharing, it’s great!

 

[Sidebstudio]

i've only taken apart 15 vintage k47s, which is obviously not a huge amount compared to the number out there. i can't recall how many used center termination spacers but none used ring spacers yet. do you know what years the ones that used spacers were?

I don't want to be out of the thread's theme and I think that would be great opening a new thread about capsule's construction, if someone is interested.
However, I know different opinion about Neumann dating (the hand written text on them and obviously the dating based on experience and of course, when customers send their whole mics, on the mic itself) but I'm sure found center spacing in early '70 k47 (Neumann 47 fet) but I'm quite sure they has ring spacers, too.
Next time I'll have one, I'll post internal photo.