Neve 10x1 Audience Reaction Mixer?

[Golgoth]

Hi everyone,

I could buy a 10x1 Neve audience reaction mixer soon for a price equivalent to the sum of it's parts, which is a fine deal in my opinion.

I plan on modding it to a 10x2 configuration (with panning, or 5 hard left / 5 hard right not sure yet), so I could use the mixer for tracking or summing depending on the needs by switching some cables in the patchbay. I need to find a second B183 card and output transformer for that.

It would be, in my opinion, the best sounding summing mixer out there. Which in itself is a good thing, but I want the box to be a good 10 preamps box also, so I am wondering how it would sound as a preamp?

I've unfortunately never heard this mixer specifically and been wondering if a T1452 followed by a B338 opamp and VTB 1148 output transformer is a complete Neve preamp circuit or not? I've been wondering how it would sound at line level too..

I have experienced the T1452 which I could A/B with many other transformers a few years ago in a preamp design and liked it very much.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

PS: I might have posted this thread in the wrong section

 

[ubxf]

The one listed for sale in Germany looks to me as a line mixer, line amp not mic preamp.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

It's an utterly unreasonable proposition IMO. You would not be able to re-use the metalwork, would need to add many expensive things (output xfmrs).
These things were very expensive because they were essentially one-offs, but their actual resale value is marginal.
You buy essentially 10 input xfmrs, 10 BA283's and a power xfmr. Not 3k worth.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

The one listed for sale in Germany looks to me as a line mixer, line amp not mic preamp.

If you mean the one from Tweed Neve Vintage 10x1 Audience Reaction Microphone Mixer | Tweed | Reverb
it's no doubt a mic mixer. However, I'm not sure it has phantom power.

 

[Golgoth]

It's an utterly unreasonable proposition IMO. You would not be able to re-use the metalwork, would need to add many expensive things (output xfmrs).
These things were very expensive because they were essentially one-offs, but their actual resale value is marginal.
You buy essentially 10 input xfmrs, 10 BA283's and a power xfmr. Not 3k worth.

If we ask the question differently: is each preamp worth 300€ in that box? Seems like a bargain to me for an hi end preamp in 2021. But is it really?

10 vintage Neve pres in a 1u rack is pretty sexy imo if they sound good.. Even if we take the summing mixer mod out of the equation for now.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

If we ask the question differently: is each preamp worth 300€ in that box? Seems like a bargain to me for an hi end preamp in 2021. But is it really?

It's only a fraction of a Neve preamp. Just the front end, without pad, polaity reverse & phantom switch. No HPF, no output amp nor xfmr (which are a significant part of the character of a 1073).

 

[Golgoth]

Well there is a B138 and VTB1148 on the output so I guess it has output amp and xfmr right? Of course still missing all the other pre functionnalities tho

 

[ubxf]

I see so the Marinair/St.Ives 30267 backwards and the gain stage of the 1081 is the mic pre and they all share 1 output stage. So you need another rack with 9 BA283 and output transformers

 

[Golgoth]

I was planning on using the sommation stereo output as the only outputs, no direct outs for individual channels. That would only mean adding one output amp and another output transformer + replacing the output knob with a stereo knob.

Hard panning L/R through the sommation for now so I don't have to alter the faceplate by adding pan pots.

 

[ruffrecords]

A3559 is the Neve job number. I can try to find out what is was and for whom. However, I have a feeling may may be just a small part of a very big project. Back in the mid 70s Neve built several enormous mixers for NBC for the Olympic Games and an audience reaction mixer was a likely subsection of each of them.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Golgoth]

@ruffrecords from what I have found it was ordered to extend the number of preamps from a 8024

 

[Jeff Goodman2]

I have one of these that I got from Sony Scoring in L.A. They had 2 that were delivered with, or shortly after, their early 1980's Neve was installed. I think I remember it being an 8136 (?).
Mine is loaded with only 6 channels. As described above, it is 6x 1081 type inputs to one output. The inputs on mine are 10468 input transformers and BA438 input amps to one BA440 amp into an LO2567. I modded the unit to include 6x BA 440's and 6x LO2567's wired through switches to provide 6x direct outs or any combo of direct out or mixed mono out. This way, for instance, 2 mics can be combined to one out while 4 others have discrete outs.

 

[Jeff Goodman2]

To do that I had to mount another chassis upside down and punch holes to run wire through. I added switches for phantom, a 20db pad, polarity, as well as the direct out/mix out mod.

At the cost you're talking about to purchase the unit, I really don't think it's worth it. You could buy everything you need to just make one from scratch for much much less.

 

[Jeff Goodman2]

Oh, and the schemo I have for it is signed by the venerable Robin Porter. He's still there and might send you a copy if you ask nicely!

When I get home, I'll try to remember to take a few pics to post. You really almost never hear about or see these units.

Also, for some reason, none that I have seen came with a top cover.

 

[Pip]

IMO, it is not worth it. The transformers are nice and the opamps are too. But the synonym for vintage is old.

Yes Neve did a lot of custom broadcast building especially for NBC and CBS.

 

[Golgoth]

Oh, and the schemo I have for it is signed by the venerable Robin Porter. He's still there and might send you a copy if you ask nicely!

When I get home, I'll try to remember to take a few pics to post. You really almost never hear about or see these units.

Also, for some reason, none that I have seen came with a top cover.

I feel like I have seen your mod somewhere! Is that it? : Neve 6×1 submixer conversion to 6-channel mic preamp — Eisen Audio, LLC

Unfortunately I have no source for x10 T1452 transformers and as many opamps for less than 3000€... I have only came across single input transformers for up to 450€ a piece... I remember paying 150€ a piece here in 2016...

I also feel like these vintage components are more expensive and rare to find in Europe

And you're right about the top cover haha! Seen a few and none of them had one!

 

[Golgoth]

I have one of these that I got from Sony Scoring in L.A. They had 2 that were delivered with, or shortly after, their early 1980's Neve was installed. I think I remember it being an 8136 (?).
Mine is loaded with only 6 channels. As described above, it is 6x 1081 type inputs to one output. The inputs on mine are 10468 input transformers and BA438 input amps to one BA440 amp into an LO2567. I modded the unit to include 6x BA 440's and 6x LO2567's wired through switches to provide 6x direct outs or any combo of direct out or mixed mono out. This way, for instance, 2 mics can be combined to one out while 4 others have discrete outs.

Sounds like an amazing piece of gear you got here!!!

 

[Jeff Goodman2]

I feel like I have seen your mod somewhere! Is that it? : Neve 6×1 submixer conversion to 6-channel mic preamp — Eisen Audio, LLC

Unfortunately I have no source for x10 T1452 transformers and as many opamps for less than 3000€... I have only came across single input transformers for up to 450€ a piece... I remember paying 150€ a piece here in 2016...

I also feel like these vintage components are more expensive and rare to find in Europe

And you're right about the top cover haha! Seen a few and none of them had one!

That's not mine. They did a great job, though!

 

[ubxf]

yes that would be a good way to go. The one you're thinking about buying looks like the 10468 were harvested and they replaced them with whatever 30267 they had in their parts drawer

 

[Golgoth]

yes that would be a good way to go. The one you're thinking about buying looks like the 10468 were harvested and they replaced them with whatever 30267 they had in their parts drawer

That was my understanding too! Looks like the output transformer was also replaced with a recent VTB1148 unfortunately.

The T1444 is the older version of the T1452 correct? Are they sounding very different? Or just older and rarer?