Neve 44 series info

[Kid Squid]

Hiya Chaps,

Has anyone got any info regarding NEVE series 44 consoles,

Just been asked by a mate , to have a look into fitting mods to his series 44 console, and I'm just wondering, do any of you chaps have any info regarding this.

I've tried Neve, Siemens etc, but to no avail :sad:

I think it might have been used for broadcast, but i have heard, that it is similar to a VR console, but without the VR !!

Any info is appreciated,

Peace

Steve :thumb:

 

[SSLtech]

Honestly... whoever propagates this crap about "Baby VR's" needs a kicking.

The 44 and 55 use the same technology as the VR only in so far as they use 5534s and a similar mic pre. The mic pre is nothing special, by far the worst mic pre you'll ever find in a Neve console.

I've thought that last opinion over BTW, and I really think it's accurate.

Mods? -Sure.

Replace the EQ with something parametric if that's what you want. Replace it with a passive Inductor based jobbie if that's what you want.

Mic pres: try replacing it with a decent transformer and something better than the 5534, or better yet, use an outboard mic pre.

Routing matrix: -You might want to build one.

Dynamics: -If your console has them, wire them into permanent bypass.

Honestly, the 81/82 and V series probably really were the low spot of sonic character in large frame Neve consoles. The whole design really was an attempt to homogenise and modernise the type of construction using 5534s and other changes. I for one don't like the V series all that much: I'll grant you that it sounded a little better than the SSL E series and possibly the early G series, but that's not saying all that much.

The VR was the first analogue Neve to have recall. That's the only reason it took off. In much the same way, the SSL was the first all analogue console to have total recall, and it revolutionised studio bookings, therefore it sold -not because it sounded any good, but because it was good for business.

Comparing the 44 to a VR, well, it shares some of the design and construction techniques. That's it, really. Everone who picks up one of these orphans defends it with the self-justifying assertion that "it's like a baby V"... get over it. It's like saying that a Ford Fiesta is like a baby GT40. -I suppose they're from the same company, they have manual transmissions and they share the same number of things like wheels and tyres, but in terms of what they're built for, they're about as similar as whipped cream and dog turd.

Sorry if I sound a little jaded, but I get this all the time. -If it really was like a baby V (and don't forget, they made a lot more 44s and 55s than V's, so there are plenty more of them out there) how come you don;t find them in recording studios?

My advice: sell it.

Keith

 

[Mark Burnley]

...with the sales pitch of:

"well, it's like a baby V..."

:grin:

Mark

 

[Kid Squid]

just wondering..................



anyway, i'll be saying no more about baby vr's !

this was a conversation over a couple of pints - with a mate who has acquired the aforementioned console.
basically, he asked me , would i like to have a look at maybe doing some mods or whatever.
my first impression was that it wasn't very NEVE like, and it was more of a broadcast console ?!, haven't heard anything through it - so i really don't know what it sounds like yet

Jaded, nah, just a geezer that knows what he likes :guinness:

Best Regards
Steve

 

[radiance]

[quote author="Mark Burnley"]...with the sales pitch of:

"well, it's like a baby V..."

:grin:

Mark[/quote]

LOL :thumb:

 

[Crusty2]

[quote author="SSLtech"]
The VR was the first analogue Neve to have recall. That's the only reason it took off. [/quote]

The real reason they took off (at least in L.A.) was the financing that was offered from N*ve and a certain leasing company (now out of business). The pitch was given to mid-level studios: "you want to compete with the 'Big Boys', right? You can up your rates and make a killing." Damn near anyone qualified, too. They sold tons of them and when everybody had them, the rates dropped (of course), and then the repos started. A story I heard was, at one point, there were dozens of repo'ed "V" frames stacked on their sides sitting at the shop. Did the studio owners learn their lesson? Nope. SSL did the same thing with 9k's. Within a few years, some people still owed more on their 9k's than it would cost to buy one from S*SL.

 

[SSLtech]

I was in LA when that happened, in 1989 or so.

Siemens did it on the back of their medical equipment leasing, eith a GUARANTEED buy-back at origial purchase price after 10 years...

Repo city.

SSL never did that. -Never.

If someone got over their head with an SSL lease, it wa their provlem or their leasing company's problem. People might have over-extended themselves on 9K's, but let me assure you, SSL never did that. Siemens/Neve did.

Definately want to set the record straight on that one.

Keith

 

[Crusty2]

[quote author="SSLtech"]

SSL never did that. -Never.

If someone got over their head with an SSL lease, it wa their provlem or their leasing company's problem. People might have over-extended themselves on 9K's, but let me assure you, SSL never did that. Siemens/Neve did.

Definately want to set the record straight on that one.
[/quote]

Sorry Keith,

You'd know better than me on that one.

And yes, plenty really over-extended themselves. It's difficult to make that $10k payment every month. Have just a couple of bad months (and there have been a couple of years of it now), and even the big boys get into real trouble..

I think SSL is pretty smart to start downsizing their products and shifting their marketing focus. I think N*ve will just tank...

And getting back to the original question, I agree with your opinion on the "V" stuff. I was always a little frustrated when people compared it to the older stuff, most not even realizing that Rupert was long gone when that cr@p went on the drawing board. My old Soundcr@ft TS-24 blew the "V" away.

Paul

 

[mikep]

I have a 44 that I have extensivly modified. It is an excellent board, but It wasn't when I got my hands on it!

first of all the micpre is just like a 55, it does NOT have a 5534 in it. It sounds NOTHING like a VR. It is an odd design that uses an OEP 1:2 transformer then an SSM2017. very low noise, but not much thickness to the tone. clear but a little bright. I replaced some of the 2017's with INA163. Not typical neve micpreamps but very useful IMO. you could try bypassing the transformer but I left them there.

The biggest problem with this board is the built in PSU. It is a little undersized and it runs hot, baking the modules. I built an external supply in a 3U box. made a new star ground where the PSU cable enters the chassis. BIG improvement.

Ok, The board is full of TL074's. in the Aux sends they are used to drive the busses. They need to be replaced with something that has better output drive capability. I made a bunch of dual opamp to quad opamp adapter boards and replaced almost ALL of them. they are in the EQ, I like OPA2604s there, they are also in the mix busses. I replaced those with OPA2132.

speaking of the mix amps, they are a little strange. 33078's as virtual earth summing amps feeding TL074 with subtracts the "compensation" buss. essentially all the busses share a common, undriven cold bus. I like the tone of the 33078, best to leave it there. you can up the value of the caps at the input to the busses significantly, the bottom end will improve a little.

there is another big problem with the low frequency response of this board as stock. the reason is a 20Hz highpass filter in every channel. the 3-frequency highpass filter is actually 4 frequencies, and it cannot be bypassed. I modded all the modules so that the hipass is switched in/out with the EQ. HUGE improvement.

The monitor section is very flexible, BUT you are always listening thru a crappy CMOS analog switch! it is there for the PFL function. What a bone headed design! I replaced the analog switch with a relay. the only other circuitry is a TL072 and a SSM line driver. I replaced those with OPA2132 and a DRV134. it is *very* clean now.

The channel inserts are not bypassable, so your signal path includes all the wire to and from the patchbay. you can wire the inserts as direct outputs if you wish and patch "inserts" before the line inputs like I did.

The 2 stereo mix busses have stereo compressors. They are really agressive and crazy sounding. I kind of like them so I left them stock. I modded one of them so that when bypassed it uses the mix insert send/return circuitry to get out to the patchbay. I also modded the busses so that the PFL switches are latching and now function as insert bypasses.

I also socketed ALL the ICs with nice mil-max sockets and recapped with panasonic FC.

the stock switches are gold contacts and the pots are pretty good Sfers.

I think it is a great sounding board at this point. I used it for about a year with a 3M M56 1" 8 track and made a few records. I don't have the 8-track anymore and the board is currently packed up :sad:
mike p

 

[Kid Squid]

Hiya Mike,

Just seen your reply to my woes !
I'm in 44 series hell at the moment, inbetween changing nappies, burping, and keeping a close eye on my new born daughter :grin:

I posted a question not so long ago, regarding some mods and problems that i carried out for a friends 44 series.
I haven't had much time to work on it since Poppy was born, and this is the first visit to the forum in a couple of weeks.
would it be o.k to P.M / email you regarding your mods / PSU etc, as any help would be great help.
Pics would be great also - thats if you have any :thumb:

Speak to you soon

Best Regards
Steve :guinness: