ns10 crossover schematic?

[shmuu102]

hi all,

anyone have the schematic for the crossovers the ns10's use?

im building a set of DIY monitors, kinda close to these, and i was interested
in the crossover freq and order they used.. thanks

 

[Tekay]

Do a google and you'll find it! I did, together with a modification for the 1,5k peak!
This was a year ago and I didn't save it just printed it.

 

[12afael]

on the manual (pdf) is the schematic.

 

[SonsOfThunder]

[quote author="Tekay"]Do a google and you'll find it! I did, together with a modification for the 1,5k peak![/quote]
http://www.proaudiorx.com/ns10modification.htm

And a great article about the whole "tissue paper" thing:

http://www.bobhodas.com/tissue.html

HTH!

 

[Morning_Star]

What was changed when the NS10's were reissued as NS10M's?

 

[Guest]

I nicked this from the Yamaha web site a few years ago

The explosive popularity of the Yamaha NS-10Mspeaker system for near- field monitoring in professional sound studios throughout the world has resulted in the development of the NS-10M STUDIO model. The NS-10M SUTDIO maintains the quality and performance of the original NS10M, but has been refined and redesinged specifically for professional applications. To begin with, you can throw away the tissue paper.
The high-end output of the NS-10M STUDIO has been modified - on the basis of extensive testing and feedback from the field - for optimum balance in the studio control room.



Compact, High-performance 2-way Configuration
The NS-10M STUDIO retains the unique sheet-formed white-cone 18cm woofer of the original NS-10M, but employs a redesinged 3.5cm dome tweeter to achieve high-end response that is more suitable for studio use. Optimum woofer/tweeter matching and careful crossover design ensure smooth, natural transition between frequency ranges with minimum phase variation. Frequency response is remarkably flat from 60 Hz right up to 20 kHz, and superior transient response delivers crisp, transparent sound. The exceptionally tight, clean reproduction and precise overall response of this system is a must for accurate sound evaluation and image positioning.



New Exterior Design
While the original NS-10M was primarily a vertical design, the NS10M STUDIO has been remodeled to facilitate on-console horizontal placement. Overall construction is more rugged to withstand the rigors of nonstop professional use.

 

[Morning_Star]

I still can't not find the answer to my question. What is the difference between the crossover circut in the first NS10's that can be easily be found on the internet to the NS10M's that were designed for horizontal placement? I hoping that it is the same and the only difference was the tweeter used.

 

[tommypiper]

Yeah, where is the schematic for the NS10 Studio version? It's not the same as the original NS10.

BTW, to my ears the Studio version sounds fine.

 

[sintech]

I got my sn10 clones yesterday, only £69 a pair! this week from Studiospares, they defo do the ns10m thing, they A-B well up to a borrowed set of "tissue paper" domestics.. without the need for the bog roll!


http://www.studiospares.com/product.aspx?code=248000

 

[pucho812]

the tisue paper thing was a complete joke done by some mix engineer named Bob. Someone asked why his mixes sound so good and what he monitors with and he said NS-10's but I put tissue paper to control the high frequency. next thing you know every lil engineer trying to make good mixes was doing it in the hopes it would help. Reality is, it didn't do shit but make people look stupid. Thats no more different then me going I only mix in rooms where the console faces west as that offers the best in energy transference...

 

[Guest]

I have a set of NS10Ms upstairs boxed up ready to send to a friend cos I have no use for them - my Adam A7s do the job for my no pro ears

 

[SSLtech]

[quote author="pucho812"]...tissue paper... ...it didn't do shit...[/quote]
An amusing choice of words, I find.

Keef

 

[NewYorkDave]

In '93, I mixed an album on a pair of NS10s. Never again! My ears hurt just from thinking about it :razz:

Seriously, I never understood the appeal of those things. Is it just from people being suggestible ("Engineer Big Boy uses them, so I must as well") or do they possess some special quality that eluded me?

 

[SonsOfThunder]

I'm still in disbelief that someone revived this thread that was last posted to almost exactly 2 yrs ago...and it was my post...!

A nice overview on studio monitoring at Wikipedia.

Was it Bob Clrmtn that started the NS-10 trend? I heard the story that whomever it was, was just using those because they were originally a low-cost bookshelf speaker that was randomly deemed to be "typical" of mid-fi home speakers at the time.

If this occurred today, the tissue thang probably would not have come about because he probably would have said, "these tweeters are cuttin' my head off. Think I'll surf the net for some info on how to make an L-pad." And that probably would have remained his "secret weapon". :razz:

As I have said a few times on this forum, I can't mix worth crap on my super-flat response speakers (+/-2dB from 80Hz to 22kHz), but if I can make it sound good on the cheap yammy home speakers, it will translate on just about anything.

Peace!
Charlie

 

[tommypiper]

Yes, it was Bob C. who started the trend, AFAIK.

Yes, SonsofThunder, you have the right approach about them. If your mix sounds good on the NS10s, then they will work elsewhere.

For those who don't understand why NS10s were popular and complain that they are fatiguing and sound bad... basically that's your answer above.

There are several additional points to make: :wink:

-They were not meant to be played loud, and most engineers who don't understand them were using them at inappropriate SPLs.

-They do sound different depending what is driving them. Don't assume it's the monitor's fault until you've heard them with several good amps.

-It's a mistake to use them in a large room or at a distance. Again see the first point about high SPLs. Of course that causes fatique.

-The early NS10s did indeed have a nasty peak, but you learned to listen through that and it helped prepare you for the real world where your music would be heard.

-The later NS10 Studio versions sound quite good.

-However, they are not meant to sound flattering or glorious and comparing them to much more expensive monitors is missing the point of their utility.

-I, and many engineers, preferred them in many instances because you were no longer seduced by a glorious sound and could immediately get to work.

-Really flattering and good sounding monitors are HARDER to mix on because you have a harder time sifting through what is really going on -- because everything sounds better, everything sounds good! How can you mix when it all sounds good? You can't. (You don't want rose colored glasses mixing.)

-If you need references that you feel you are not getting with the NS10, flip the switch and listen for a minute with bigger monitors. You are not married to the NS10 throughout the mix!

-I personally dislike Genelecs. Blech.

 

[SonsOfThunder]

Thanks for that confirming info TP!!

I finally did a google on BC and NS-10 and it turned up a few similar stories about an article in Mix Mag several years ago.

A few people said something like, the NS-10 will force you to sort out the midrange in order to get a spce for the different signals and make sure that the L Vox always stands out. This was my biggest problem before. But they also said they don't use the NS-10 as the only monitoring source. Mixing is definitely a developed skill and the tools you use can make it better or worse for you. The "screwdriver" I like and use might not fit your hand well...

NS-6390 or NS-6490, I think is about the same kind of (crappy) thing for $99 today. Don't set them on their sides in a mirror image though, the phasing will make you puke.

I don't take music into my studio to "listen" to it. I take that to my living room. :green:

 

[mrclunk]

Does anyone have a definitive answer if there's a difference between the crossovers in the NS10M and NS10M 'studio' ?

I currently have two pairs of NS10M's and two NS10M 'studio' and the crossovers look exactly the same.. I don't have a LCR meter to test the coils but they all look identical?

I've read in various places they redesigned the crossover and changed tweeter for softer treble and extended bass?
Far as i can tell they just changed tweeters..

 

[living sounds]

Yes, they only ever changed the tweeter. I've got the even older NS-615, these are hifi shelf speakers with brown wood finish that also have the same dimensions, crossover and speaker chassis as the NS10 (not the "m" studio version tweeter). The only difference to the NS10 besides the finish is that the speaker pair is not symmtrical wrt to the position of the chassis'.

 

[mrclunk]

Excellent, thanks.
I've one set with the older tweeters and a few with the newer 'calmer' tweeters.
I might try tweaking the NS10m's crossovers to tame the older tweeters a touch.

 

[pucho812]

so much to type.
NS stands for natural sound. there are many on the NS line from yamaha.
Want to know all about the various incarnations of NS10 speakers?
look no further.
http://www.ns-10m.com/