ns10 crossover schematic?

[mrclunk]

Thanks, lots of info there but again that site says they changed the x-over between the original 1978 Ns-10m and later ‘improved’ Ns-10m pro and studio.
I’ll get an LCR meter and test mine. The 1978 NS-10m’s i have are in very good condition, untouched originals.

 

[Disco Volante]

A bit of felt under the dome can help take out resonance peaks in tweeters. This is often lacking or insufficient in older tweeters. Sometimes, magnetic oil can help take down resonances in the critical crossover-region..

 

[mrclunk]

Good point, i’ve seen old foam under tweeters completely disintegrated before.
I’m not sure how these tweeters come apart and they’re so expensive now im not going to try! I don’t have a blown one to experiment with, just nos replacements.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/anyone-familiar-with-ns10-tweeters-disassembly.336872/

 

[Gertius]

Thanks, lots of info there but again that site says they changed the x-over between the original 1978 Ns-10m and later ‘improved’ Ns-10m pro and studio.
I’ll get an LCR meter and test mine. The 1978 NS-10m’s i have are in very good condition, untouched originals.

Hi, I am also very interested in this at the moment. Please do report back with your findings.

What are the actual technical differences between the two models?
One can find different conflicting information on the web. Would be great to know what's really going on under the hood.

My current state of information is, that the tweeters are obviously different, the woofers are the same, but the crossovers?
I have also written to Yamaha support yesterday with this question. If they should answer I'll let you know.

And how about the cab, might it be different construction/materials with different resonances?

 

[mrclunk]

Don't worry i will be entering the the NS-10 rabbit hole with my LCR and a measurement mic.

 

[Gertius]

Don't worry i will be entering the the NS-10 rabbit hole with my LCR and a measurement mic.

Great! It would be also interesting how they achieve the supposedly extended bass response and different Watts power rating in the "Studio" version if the crossover should turn out to really be the same.

 

[Whoops]

NS stands for natural sound.

I didn't know that, that's funny an really ironic since the NS-10 (any reincarnation) are anything but natural...

 

[pucho812]

I didn't know that, that's funny an really ironic since the NS-10 (any reincarnation) are anything but natural...

View attachment 94330

Here check this out…

http://bobhodas.com/examining-the-yamaha-ns-10m.php

 

[mhelin]

I think the main issue with the NS10 sound is the dip at around 300 Hz as the speaker is designed to work on top of the console or actually on a bookshelf which will boost the upper bass / lower mids. When that frequency range are is not present the sound is too thin and unbalanced and just hurts your ears.

 

[cyrano]

I didn't know that, that's funny an really ironic since the NS-10 (any reincarnation) are anything but natural...

Years ago, i spent quite some time researching these. There was even a 5.1 set sold under the NS10 moniker. And several other variants. Like most hifi speakers from past century Japan, the high is very pronounced, while the bass is somewhat limited. Not so odd if you look at Japanese houses.

The big brother, the NS1000 is very renowned in audiophile circles. It's also much better. Hard to find a pair for a reasonable price, though. A friend inherited a pair and sold them on ebay for almost 2000€.

The story of how the hype started went something like "big name studio engineer wanted to hear his final mix on typical hifi speakers. So the intern was sent out to buy a pair. The NS10 wasn't selling, so it was being discounted heavily. When the big name was done, they remained in the studio and some bands after noticed and started demanding NS10s in other studios. It wasn't until a few decades later that Yamaha marketing noticed the high second hand prices for these and started introducing new models. The NS10m and studio were mainly redesigned to cut cost."

Sadly, I don't remember the big name and no longer have access to the database that contains my notes.

 

[Whoops]

The story of how the hype started went something like "big name studio engineer wanted to hear his final mix on typical hifi speakers. So the intern was sent out to buy a pair. The NS10 wasn't selling, so it was being discounted heavily. When the big name was done, they remained in the studio and some bands after noticed and started demanding NS10s in other studios. It wasn't until a few decades later that Yamaha marketing noticed the high second hand prices for these and started introducing new models. The NS10m and studio were mainly redesigned to cut cost."

I guess it also helped the hype in the 80s and 90s that the looks are quite characteristic with the white woofer under a black cabinet, it stand out compared to other speakers at the time, also they were expensive and easy to transport from one studio to the other in case you wanted.
They're were also easy to place horizontally on top of an SSL console or other consoles.
It was also in the 80s that the mixing trend started to move more towards smaller near-fields, compared to big monitors or mid-sized monitors from the 70s.

I was never amazed by the sound, found them too harsh and lacking the 2 lower octaves and the last high octave, they are not popular any longer in professional circles but some people still use them.

Anyway I don't want to get too side-tracked in the purpose of this thread

 

[blakeyboy]

"they are not popular any longer in professional circles but some people still use them."

Hmm.... you'll find that they are still popular in studios, and, being sealed boxes, the lower octaves _are_ there, of course, instead of a flappy mess that small prorted cabs give with their steeper rolloff.....

 

[Gertius]

Don't worry i will be entering the the NS-10 rabbit hole with my LCR and a measurement mic.

Hi mrclunk,
any updates on this? Did you already have time to enter the rabbit hole?

 

[JohnRoberts]

I didn't know that, that's funny an really ironic since the NS-10 (any reincarnation) are anything but natural...

View attachment 94330

The classic hack was to put toilet paper in front of the tweeter... but that HF harshness might have been it's magic. Get a mix to sound good over those toads and you have a hit.

JR

 

[Whoops]

Get a mix to sound good over those toads and you have a hit.

JR

Yeah, right….

maybe only 0.1% or less of people that mixed on NS10 were ever able to have an Hit.
And that’s because of the Song not due to the speakers used in mixing

The NS10 were definitely a trend phenomenon at some point in the 80s, but that’s long gone. There’s countless of better options on 2022

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yeah, right….

maybe only 0.1% or less of people that mixed on NS10 were ever able to have an Hit.
And that’s because of the Song not due to the speakers used in mixing

The NS10 were definitely a trend phenomenon at some point in the 80s, but that’s long gone. There’s countless of better options on 2022

there were better options back then too...

JR

 

[beatsnblunts]

and i just recently bought a pair!
i used to hate them too and maybe its because im older now(as is the hearing)
but i find the translation way better for me than my Focal solo6 be’s. the two pair well together.

 

[Whoops]

I’m personally not a fan of Focal speakers also, I like ProAc Studio 100

 

[mappee]

Let us not forget an amazing thing...NS10's cost appx. 250.00 for a matched pair and on top of that they had a 5 year warranty. I had my tweeter replaced 3 times before I got smart and fused them. The critics started to rip into NS-10's in the early 90's and 30 years on they still attack one of the most iconic studio standards. Guess it's hip to hate the winner.
Wonder how we missed shouting about those little boxes Quincy Jones used to promote? Oh wait there back!

 

[cyrano]

Oh, I don't hate NS10s...

It's just I'm cheap. I don't consider 250$ a good price and I've seen pairs going for 400 € lately. I'd rather buy a pair of BBC monitors for that kind of money.

Also, no studio owner I know considers these to be "studio monitors", even if some of them have NS10s available in the studio. Mainly for visiting engineers. Some of these studios also have Philips or Heco vintage monitors.

Same goes for auratones. Easy to DIY. And even if not very close to the originals, useful in some ways.

Then there's the amp that drives the monitors...