[OT] Roland VSR-880 questions

[clintrubber]

Hi,

Sorry for the OT but I understood there a few of you out there using
the Roland VSR-880 harddisk recorder.

There are a few for sale here and before jumping I have a few
good-to-know-if questions.
If you just use it standalone without any computer-hassle please skip #2
(and be a happier person :wink: )

#1
I was thinking about getting two VSR-880 units, one for the homestudio and the other in our rehearsal/recording space and just taking along a
harddisk-drive.
But does the front-panel drive-port qualify as a regular-use thing ?

I mean, is it tough enough for disk-(un)plugging on a regular basis (say one or two times a week) ?
Or do I better do this by backing up to an external SCSI-drive first and take that SCSI-drive along ? (That'd be cumbersome after a session...)


#2
Any idea if the VSR-880 can be both 'master and slave by S/PDIF' ?

I mean, is there a setting to determine whether the incoming S/PDIF
will be synced to (so S/PDIF transfers _to_ the Roland) or to sync another
unit to the Roland (transfers _from_ the Roland).
(Perhaps this is called something like clock source/select )

Last but not least, are these recommendable units ?


Thanks - any info much appreciated,

Peter

 

[Ethan]

I bought the VS-880 when it first came out (I've long since sold mine). Roland must have sold a million of those things. Overall, for the price, it's a great little box (just make sure you record in "non-compressed" mode--I forget the term that is actually used. It defaults to a lossy kind of compression to save space.)

Answer to Q1: I don't know. Personally I wouldn't want to risk it. Pushing and pulling out drives repeatedly from what is just a simple plastic chassis might not be the best course of action--just my opinion.

Answer to Q2: Yes you can slave one to another.

BTW: It is a great little value. By far the best in class. I sold mine because I needed more functionality and went to Pro Tools TDM, not because there was anything wrong with the unit.

 

[clintrubber]

Thanks Ethan,

Note I'm thinking about the VSR-880, the rackmount,
but I figure what holds for the VS-880 will hold for the VSR-880 as well.

Answer to Q1: I don't know. Personally I wouldn't want to risk it. Pushing and pulling out drives repeatedly from what is just a simple plastic chassis might not be the best course of action--just my opinion.

You're right, it has to be firm. I have no idea if this is 'caddy-like' or just a 'plug once' affair. I'll have a look when I work out a visist to the seller.

Answer to Q2: Yes you can slave one to another.

Nice, that's good to know.

Thanks,

Peter

 

[NewYorkDave]

Peter: You PM'd me about this, and I apologize for not getting back to you until now.

I own a pair of VSR-880s. I use them strictly as 8-track recorders. I do not mix or apply effects "inside the box", and I have never slaved the units together. However, it's my understanding that they can be slaved together for 16-track recording.

I would not recommend pulling the hard drive in and out on a frequent basis. Rather, use an external SCSI device to back-up data. If the device is fast enough, you can even record directly to it instead of recording to the internal hard drive and then backing up to the external device. Roland has a list of compatible media on their website. I use a Plextor SCSI external CD writer for backup.

The uncompressed mode is called "MAS." It's only 16-bit, and the file sizes are huge. I prefer the 24-bit VSR mode. The VSR mode uses some degree of data compression, but it sounds quite natural to me and I don't hear any artifacts. I always record at 48kHz, not 44.1

The VSR-880 is a bit of an upgrade compared to the earlier VS-880, which could not do 24-bit.

The latest (and presumably last) version of the software for the VSR-880 is version 1.032. You should update the unit if it has an older version. This is done easily by connecting it to the MIDI port on your computer's soundcard. The software and the "compatible media guide" are both available here:
Roland USA product support

It's a good machine. I've been happy with mine.

 

[clintrubber]

Thanks Dave for your info !

I'll be buying one of those VSR-880 machines next week,
it seems a good combination with my DAW-setup, even when not using the R-Bus.

I own a pair of VSR-880s. I use them strictly as 8-track recorders. I do not mix or apply effects "inside the box", and I have never slaved the units together. However, it's my understanding that they can be slaved together for 16-track recording.

Intend to use it just like you. I have the possibility to buy the VS8F-2 card with it, but mixing-by-menu's doesn't sound too attractive indeed...

If you do want to sync those two one day, you'll know already how to do it - or have a look here for part of the story:

Synchronizing Roland's VSR-880 recorders
http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/techtip/06/08/2000

(the rest will be some internal clock-settings I assume)

Just for grins I'll be checking whether syncing DAW & VSR-880 works and if that works reliably. As understood from some web-browsing, clock by S/PDIF and location by MMC should keep those two together.

I would not recommend pulling the hard drive in and out on a frequent basis. Rather, use an external SCSI device to back-up data.

Thanks, that's valuable advice beforehand - so far I know the unit only from pics.

If the device is fast enough, you can even record directly to it instead of recording to the internal hard drive and then backing up to the external device. Roland has a list of compatible media on their website. I use a Plextor SCSI external CD writer for backup.

That's a nice idea - good to hear this is possible.
I have an old Plextor-writer that happened to be on that list already :grin:

The uncompressed mode is called "MAS." It's only 16-bit, and the file sizes are huge. I prefer the 24-bit VSR mode. The VSR mode uses some degree of data compression, but it sounds quite natural to me and I don't hear any artifacts.

That MAS- vs VSR-mode was definitely new for me - I mean, I'd read a review that listed all modes together with info on each of them, but it definitely didn't mention the VSR-mode as doing compression.

That's funny actually, 16-bit non-compressed 'vs' a mode that provides 24-bit and compresses.
Doesn't sound like a problem at all - previous encounters with Roland compression schemes weren't bad.

I always record at 48kHz, not 44.1

I'll compare recording at 48kHz and sending these out to DAW via analog vs recording at 44kHz1 and sending that to the DAW in stereo pairs by S/PDIF.
(The latter by lack of the R-Bus card or because not having that DIF-AT-box and ADAT-inputs on my DAW)

The VSR-880 is a bit of an upgrade compared to the earlier VS-880, which could not do 24-bit.

Actually a bit puzzled why the VSR-880 didn't seem to catch on (correct me if I'm wrong) - got the impression Roland dropped price of this unit quite quickly.

The latest (and presumably last) version of the software for the VSR-880 is version 1.032. You should update the unit if it has an older version.
Roland USA product support

Link much appreciated ! I had located 1.031, but didn't know about '032.
Oops, no, I had already 032 but thought it was 031 since it said so in the support-pdf. I'll sure have a look what OS the unit it running and if required I'll upgrade right away.
The Roland-link you gave had more info than other Roland sites, nice.

It's a good machine. I've been happy with mine.

Good to hear this. They seem like a good deal and given they're digital units from some years ago they still seem more than 'relevant'.


Thanks again for the info you provided - I'm looking forward to picking the unit up next week and doing some nice stuff with it.

Peter

 

[NewYorkDave]

[quote author="clintrubber"]
That MAS- vs VSR-mode was definitely new for me - I mean, I'd read a review that listed all modes together with info on each of them, but it definitely didn't mention the VSR-mode as doing compression.[/quote]

It's got to be a well-crafted algorithm doing fairly light compression, because I don't hear any artifacts. However it works, it's a good scheme. Someone on VS Planet once posted a link to a technical paper or a patent by the Japanese inventors of Roland's compression scheme, but I lost the link a long time ago.

I'll compare recording at 48kHz and sending these out to DAW via analog vs recording at 44kHz1 and sending that to the DAW in stereo pairs by S/PDIF.

I use 48kHz because I do all the mixing and processing outside the box, in analog, and I want the greatest resolution possible. Really, I'm just using this thing like a tape deck with the usual analog ins and outs.

Actually a bit puzzled why the VSR-880 didn't seem to catch on (correct me if I'm wrong) - got the impression Roland dropped price of this unit quite quickly.

Actually, the unit came out around 1999 and the price was somewhere around the $2K mark, if I recall correctly. The street price dropped to somewhere around $400-$500 when the model was discontinued about three years later. That's when I bought mine.

I think the reason it may not have caught on is because they marketed it as a "V-Studio" in a rackmount package, and nobody wants to mix a record using one knob and a menu. They should have left off all the internal mixing and effects crap and just marketed it as a kickass little 2RU multitrack, which is what it really is, IMHO.

 

[clintrubber]

from NYD:

It's got to be a well-crafted algorithm doing fairly light compression, because I don't hear any artifacts. However it works, it's a good scheme. Someone on VS Planet once posted a link to a technical paper or a patent by the Japanese inventors of Roland's compression scheme, but I lost the link a long time ago.

I read it's 'RDAC', if I'm correct the same thing they already used in those little old MS-1 phrase samplers. Likely a further evolved version.

One would say Roland is originally a French company :wink: : having an own version of things (RDAC, R-Bus, their way of using English in their manuals).

I think the reason it may not have caught on is because they marketed it as a "V-Studio" in a rackmount package, and nobody wants to mix a record using one knob and a menu.

Could see that a simple internal mixer could be handy for monitoring/cue-mix when taking the machine along, but not much further. (I do assume here that unlike DAWs there's no latency issue here...)
Or they should have added mouse- & VGA-connections, like on some of their other gear.

They should have left off all the internal mixing and effects crap and just marketed it as a kickass little 2RU multitrack, which is what it really is, IMHO.

Right !


Bye,

Peter