Plate Reverb pre EQ Issue

[deveng]

Thanks!

I actually was looking at that one as well.  But that 1Gig ohm output impedance would best be handled by an amplifier very close to the piezo.  That's one of my considerations for going with the integrated amplifier and 100 ohm output impedance.  If someone already has the pickup amp designed for high impedance piezo's that may be a good choice and I'd be interested to see how it compares.  I really don't know how much the 0.3 ounce piezo would effect the plate vibration.    Experimenting with these fairly expensive piezos could get costly. 

I've also designed a PIC controlled stepper motor system for the damper mechanism.  It will store calibrated reverb positions, has the stepper ramps, end of travel stops and will work with a remote!  After I get the drive/receive electronics dialed in I'll build the mechanicals for the damper.  The PIC program with LCD display and 4x4 keypad and stepper motor has been bread boarded and works.  I've got the pcb for controller designed but have not fabbed it yet. 

Regards,
Jeff

 

[Bo Deadly]

But that 1Gig ohm output impedance would best be handled by an amplifier very close to the piezo.

That makes sense but the cables that come with them look pretty long. The cable needs to be above average for sure. I don't think there's anything particularly special about a "charge amplifier". It's probably just a JFET common emitter not entirely unlike what you might find in an LDC mic. It's not like you need a 100dB noise floor. Putting the whole Enchilada into an insulated enclosure would make a much bigger difference in noise performance.

But it looks like you're on the right track to me. I'm just being pedantic at this point.

 

[deveng]

In the early stages of my plate I had built a pair of high impedance JFET pickup amps.  In fact it was one of the first things I built.  I just never got around to applying it to the plate since I got the Isotrons.  If I ever need to go back to it, its ready to go! 

One thing I noticed during the initial testing of the Isotrons, very quiet.  My problem with the sound appeared to be plate tension and the driver (an old Acoustic coneless driver).  It was distorting a bit on transients so drum hit attacks were not good.  Could be I was driving it too hard as that's a common issue.  I managed to get my hands on an original EMT driver magnet with the wide gap.  I purchased a 3/4" voice coil and fashioned a bullet head on it so its very much like the original EMT coil.  I need to get my plate properly tensioned first then I can drill and mount the bullet coil.    Only then will I know if I'm on the right track!

Regards,
Jeff

 

[dmp]

Did you ever finish this plate reverb build? This is some great DIY.

I have an old ecoplate that I made the same electronics for (pictures)

 

[deveng]

Did you ever finish this plate reverb build? This is some great DIY.

I have an old ecoplate that I made the same electronics for (pictures)

Thanks for asking! Its been a long project to say the least. I have not finished it yet. I have some good hardware and plugin reverbs so it doesn't stop me from doing final mixes and as a result it keeps getting moved down the list of things to do. I did finish the microcontroller programming for the damper movement and assembled all the electronics. It's all tested and working properly. Where I've landed is the physical construction of the damper and the metal framework for installing in into a cabinet. To continue the high quality of the build thus far I'll need to have some angle metal welded for supporting the plate frame (just like the EMT unit) . For the damper I'll use aluminum angle and I'll and assemble that myself. So, I will finish it when life allows. I've designed, built and repaired literally a hundred things after I started this yet it still remains on my list. I also used some of the Ecoplate amplifier schematics for my design with some changes for the type of transducers.

 

[Sounddesign84]

Hello! I will build a simpler plate reverb and use a towel for damping. I wanted to use this as a frame:
https://www.witre.se/sv/wsw/mobil-k...XsD9OmEAMKOjGL5V2R8KjAt8Th3RLXTxoCPiUQAvD_BwE

Where I buy the plate, should I ask them to drill holes for me? I read somewhere that it is better to drills the holes uneven? I dont understand much of the electronics side yet but there is a speaker that vibrates the plates and then there is the transducers that pickup the sound. I will be knocking on plates shortley.

 

[deveng]

Hello! I will build a simpler plate reverb and use a towel for damping. I wanted to use this as a frame:
https://www.witre.se/sv/wsw/mobil-k...XsD9OmEAMKOjGL5V2R8KjAt8Th3RLXTxoCPiUQAvD_BwE

Where I buy the plate, should I ask them to drill holes for me? I read somewhere that it is better to drills the holes uneven? I dont understand much of the electronics side yet but there is a speaker that vibrates the plates and then there is the transducers that pickup the sound. I will be knocking on plates shortley.

The frame needs to be rigid enough to support the tension on the plate. I'm not sure that frame is strong enough. Drilling the holes is not difficult but does take some technique since stainless is very tough. You don't need a special drill but you do need to keep it cool. The corners will also need extra metal so the main plate won't tear or the holes elongate. As for the electronics, its important to get the proper pre and post equalization. Go cold rolled steel for the best if you can get it or stainless.

 

[Sounddesign84]

Thank you for your contact! At 4:54 below in this video was what made me think a plate is "need to have". His plate is 1000x600. I didnt find out the thickness yet but I suspect its a "stock" plate from hardwarestore similar to this one:

https://www.bauhaus.se/plat-aluminium-blank-600x1000x1-5mm

The listed plate is aluminium though. I will keep searching for other plates.



In the video from my example he uses a spinal suspension. I read in another post that he prefers not spiral ones, what you think of that?

https://groupdiy.com/threads/building-a-real-plate-reverb-drawings.34153/

 

[Sounddesign84]

because these plates are smaller, i think it does make sense that they will be thinner, what do you think about thickness?

 

[Sounddesign84]

https://www.slojd-detaljer.com/se/tra-metall/plat-folie/stalplat-kallvalsad-1000x500-mm?p=2727-2019


Here is cold rolled steel in 1.5 and 2 mm. 6 and 8 kg.

 

[dmp]

The Ecoplate was 40"x79" (1016 mm x 2006 mm) with a thickness of 0.024" (0.6 mm)
Smaller plates need to be thinner to perform as well

 

[dmp]

EMT was 1m x 2m with minimum thickness of 0.5mm

 

[Sounddesign84]

Hm, then I have been misstaking. I saw the number 4 mm somewhere and thought, thats really thick!

 

[dmp]

Search the forum - this has been discussed before.
This thread has great info

 

[Sounddesign84]

Thanks!

 

[Sounddesign84]

Actually, to have shorter decay will suit me fine, I am not out after a "reverberation emulation". I want as in my example from the video at 4:54 you get the sensation that the effect is "inside of the sound itself" more than that is functioning as a tail.

 

[dmp]

The video has a very nice reverb sound. At exactly 4:54 I think he plays the dry sound, followed by the mix with the reverb at 4:58. I would not say the reverb tail has a short decay - it is reasonably long. You want a long tail, then it is easy with a damper rotated close to the back of the plate to make a short 'damped' reverb.
The stated dimensions are 100 cm x 60 cm x .05 cm, material Steel with aluminum frame and some plastic corners. So on par with the emt / ecoplate thickness but about half the length and width.
See this other video

 

[Sounddesign84]

The video has a very nice reverb sound. At exactly 4:54 I think he plays the dry sound, followed by the mix with the reverb at 4:58. I would not say the reverb tail has a short decay - it is reasonably long. You want a long tail, then it is easy with a damper rotated close to the back of the plate to make a short 'damped' reverb.
The stated dimensions are 100 cm x 60 cm x .05 cm, material Steel with aluminum frame and some plastic corners. So on par with the emt / ecoplate thickness but about half the length and width.
See this other video

Yes 4.58 and I am happy with the length of the decay. What do you think of this for using as frame, it holds 40 kg:

https://www.witre.se/sv/wsw/mobil-k...XsD9OmEAMKOjGL5V2R8KjAt8Th3RLXTxoCPiUQAvD_BwE

 

[Sounddesign84]

https://www.amazon.se/Alberts-466220-Slät-plåt-Galvaniserat/dp/B0088BN46A?th=1

Here is a plate, I am not sure what galvanized means but in this thread I was recommended cold rolled

https://groupdiy.com/threads/plate-reverb-pre-eq-issue.75767/page-2#post-1190613

 

[dmp]

Galvanized is a steel treatment to prevent oxidation. I would avoid using that.
How about this, exactly correct in stainless steel (1000x600x0.05 mm). And pretty cheap. Stainless steel sounds a little bit 'shinier' than cold rolled when I heard them side by side. But both sound great and similar.

As to the frame, I can't tell how strong it is, but if it is made from metal, I think you could make it work.