Plate Reverb pre EQ Issue

[Sounddesign84]

0.3mm and 0.5mm - 3mm or 5mm plate would be super heavy and not ring well. Have you looked at the Ecoplate construction drawings?

Yes I saw them just yesterday quickly. That build looks beautiful. I am aiming for a simpler one without dampening or with towel/hand dampening.

Here is the one that inspired me. Listen to it at 10:34, and plate is hanged with those spirals even ...


The steel supplier just now replied that his thinnest in stock is 0,7. He can order, but then i cant listen to the plate =/

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Your frame square section with plug in joiners should be readily available. I’d be using 0.5mm plate if your size is 1000 x 500. 0.3mm will be too tinny sounding - no bottom end - 0.7mm would be too thick for a smaller plate, even for a larger one - 0.6mm for a 2000 x 1000 is ideal. I would suggest making a moveable frame mount for the transducer so you can experiment with the best position for the driver with adjustment horizontal and vertical. The piezo pickups need to be good quality ones and avoid the el cheapo ones from eBay - however it’s worth getting a bunch of cheap ones to establish best position for placement so you can listen sequentially to a stack of them in different locations playing a looped piece of music.
Corner mounts he’s used are turnbuckles and springs - two adjacent sides - top and left - have turnbuckle mounts, the opposing faces - bottom and right use springs - you just tighten the turnbuckles to get even spring tension. Without a tension gauge you can use a feeler gauge to measure the gap between spring coils (make sure all the springs are the same type) and adjust the turnbuckles so the coil gaps in each spring are the same. The springs are coil diameter 14.5mm, wire diameter 1.5mm length 63mm. Look carefully at how you set up your springs and turnbuckles - there must not be two turnbuckles opposite each other or you’ll tear the plate and it will not resonate - there must be a spring opposite each turnbuckle and also not a mix of turnbuckle and spring on one face.
You need to reinforce the corners of the plate where the spring and turnbuckle holes are.

 

[Sounddesign84]

0.3mm and 0.5mm - 3mm or 5mm plate would be super heavy and not ring well. Have you looked at the Ecoplate construction drawings?

Alright, I am on it 0,3 - 0,5mm. It sees super thin to me though as a layman =)

 

[Sounddesign84]

Your frame square section with plug in joiners should be readily available. I’d be using 0.5mm plate if your size is 1000 x 500. 0.3mm will be too tinny sounding - no bottom end - 0.7mm would be too thick for a smaller plate, even for a larger one - 0.6mm for a 2000 x 1000 is ideal. I would suggest making a moveable frame mount for the transducer so you can experiment with the best position for the driver with adjustment horizontal and vertical. The piezo pickups need to be good quality ones and avoid the el cheapo ones from eBay - however it’s worth getting a bunch of cheap ones to establish best position for placement so you can listen sequentially to a stack of them in different locations playing a looped piece of music.
Corner mounts he’s used are turnbuckles and springs - two adjacent sides - top and left - have turnbuckle mounts, the opposing faces - bottom and right use springs - you just tighten the turnbuckles to get even spring tension. Without a tension gauge you can use a feeler gauge to measure the gap between spring coils (make sure all the springs are the same type) and adjust the turnbuckles so the coil gaps in each spring are the same. The springs are coil diameter 14.5mm, wire diameter 1.5mm length 63mm. Look carefully at how you set up your springs and turnbuckles - there must not be two turnbuckles opposite each other or you’ll tear the plate and it will not resonate - there must be a spring opposite each turnbuckle and also not a mix of turnbuckle and spring on one face.
You need to reinforce the corners of the plate where the spring and turnbuckle holes are.

I am scared of the 2000x1000 size because of building the frame and also that I am imagening that everything might be exponentially harder and more expensive in the bigger size. so 0.5-0.6 mm then, I was writing from work earlier so I could not read properly =) I have room for it.

 

[Disco Volante]

Hello from southern Sweden. My day job is running a small metalshop, mainly doing (crazy) art projects.
The standard size of steel sheet is 1x2m, so 1000x2000mm. Usually the thinner dimensions are special order, as you've already found out.
The best way to make clean holes in thin sheets is to use a punch. They're not terribly expensive and available through Biltema or Würth.

Good luck, Viggo

 

[Sounddesign84]

Hello from southern Sweden. My day job is running a small metalshop, mainly doing (crazy) art projects.
The standard size of steel sheet is 1x2m, so 1000x2000mm. Usually the thinner dimensions are special order, as you've already found out.
The best way to make clean holes in thin sheets is to use a punch. They're not terribly expensive and available through Biltema or Würth.

Good luck, Viggo

Hej Viggo!

I am happy to hear I can use a punch, what I am thinking for the bigger plate is that i dont really have a place to weld. I do have a friend that knows how to weld and is excited about the project. I was also thinking that maybe waterpipes could be a solution for the frame.

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Wherever you get your plate from they should be able to guillotine it to size for you to get a smaller plate - you’ll probably have to pay for the whole sheet plus cutting. You’d get 4 sheets 1000 x 500mm out of the standard large sheet.
They may even be able to do the hole punching for you and provide you with thicker section small pieces for the corner reinforcements - you’d need 8 pieces, 1.5mm approx thick - 4 corners, 2 each corner - 1 each side of the reverb plate, easiest with small triangles - maybe they could even drill the holes in them for you as well - 2 large holes for the turnbuckles and springs and 3 smaller holes the right size for rivets or bolts - if using bolts to hold the corner braces in place use Nylock nuts so they don’t undo on you.
Box section steel tube is readily available and there are a variety of corner plug in fittings to enable a frame build, like these adapters which you could use on the bottom to add spreader legs with rubber feet:

 

[Sounddesign84]

One of the "steelsuppliers", is now I understand a Welding workshop or Metal fabrication shop and they told me to contact a Sheet metal workshop or Tin-smithing workshop and that they can supply thinner sheets. I will investigate who is available cloese by. How are these thin sheets delivered, are they delivered in a roll? Im thinking how I can bring it up the spiral stairs without bending it? Also I am thinking if the frame needs welding if we can weld it in parts somewhere and then put the parts together in the apartment? And if those parts could be transported in a normal car ..

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Thin sheet can be rolled up for transport but if you get it cut into 1000 x 500 which is easily manageable, you could transport it sandwiched between sheets of fluted plastic called Corflute or cardboard from collapsed boxes - this you can get from your local hardware.
Edit: this way you don’t have to roll it up and can transport it flat.
If you use plug in corners as in my previous post with box section steel or aluminium tubing for the frame there’s no welding required. (The framework for the transducer can be bolted to the plate sheet frame using spacing standoffs)
https://www.themetalwarehouse.com.a...xR2MVUR-SZhKXm_pdlKyVqTsx1bbVAm4Q3_AdwscErKdP

 

[Sounddesign84]

I dont understand how i can use 4 plates? Shouldnt the plate be in one piece?

 

[Sounddesign84]

I could not check your link from where I am, I will acess it later thru VPN, I am very happy no welding is required. If I can mount together everything in the apartment I could go for a the bigger size maybe...

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

The plug in corner joiners use friction to hold together - once the plate is mounted and sprung the whole thing locks itself together. To build a frame that won’t twist at the junctions you can use flat steel corner gussets bolted to the box frame. I’ve used this method to build lighting frames and also to make a frame for a large projector screen from anodized aluminium box section 40mm x 40mm x 1.5mm. It’s very strong and as the reverb plate is mounted at the corners anyway virtually there is no angular load - all the load tends to compress the frame longitudinally.
Most large hardware stores sell box section tubing and all of the various adapters - my local hardware sells all of that plus metal sheet as well and it’s all dirt cheap. For a larger unit 2000 x 1000 you’d need to use stronger framing and steel box tubing may be necessary or use rectangular section, but for the smaller plate square box section aluminium would work fine and it’s very light.
Examples of different types of corner connectors:

Most sheet metal suppliers will guillotine your sheet to size - air conditioning sheet metal fabricators is where I’ve purchased cut to size gal steel sheet in the past as they deal in small quantities.
If you don’t want to used galvanised steel then you will probably need to rust protect your steel plate

I dont understand how i can use 4 plates? Shouldnt the plate be in one piece?

What I’m trying to say is that if you have to buy a 2000 x 1000 sheet because that’s the only size they will sell to you for a special order and you want to make a 1000 x 500 reverb plate then if they guillotine it to size you end up with 4 pieces 1000 x 500 (or 2 pieces 1000 x 500 and 1 piece 1000 x 1000), one you use and the others are spare.

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Another type of corner gusset for reinforcement - used in building available at any hardware:

 

[Sounddesign84]

The plug in corner joiners use friction to hold together - once the plate is mounted and sprung the whole thing locks itself together. To build a frame that won’t twist at the junctions you can use flat steel corner gussets bolted to the box frame. I’ve used this method to build lighting frames and also to make a frame for a large projector screen from anodized aluminium box section 40mm x 40mm x 1.5mm. It’s very strong and as the reverb plate is mounted at the corners anyway virtually there is no angular load - all the load tends to compress the frame longitudinally.
Most large hardware stores sell box section tubing and all of the various adapters - my local hardware sells all of that plus metal sheet as well and it’s all dirt cheap. For a larger unit 2000 x 1000 you’d need to use stronger framing and steel box tubing may be necessary or use rectangular section, but for the smaller plate square box section aluminium would work fine and it’s very light.
Examples of different types of corner connectors:
View attachment 146257
Most sheet metal suppliers will guillotine your sheet to size - air conditioning sheet metal fabricators is where I’ve purchased cut to size gal steel sheet in the past as they deal in small quantities.
If you don’t want to used galvanised steel then you will probably need to rust protect your steel plate

What I’m trying to say is that if you have to buy a 2000 x 1000 sheet because that’s the only size they will sell to you for a special order and you want to make a 1000 x 500 reverb plate then if they guillotine it to size you end up with 4 pieces 1000 x 500 (or 2 pieces 1000 x 500 and 1 piece 1000 x 1000), one you use and the others are spare.

Got it, with the spares...

Here are those tubes;

https://www.bauhaus.se/ror-fyrkanti...Dx0MhA7SPPGyOrEkw-RLEx3UP87IUgRhoCLZwQAvD_BwE

 

[Sounddesign84]

Got it, with the spares...

Here are those tubes;

https://www.bauhaus.se/ror-fyrkanti...Dx0MhA7SPPGyOrEkw-RLEx3UP87IUgRhoCLZwQAvD_BwE

 

[Sounddesign84]

Still for the bigger one 2000x1000 would be good if I could get it in a roll ... for the stairs ... =))

 

[Sounddesign84]

The other supplier is telling me he can get 0,6 mm thickness and is asking me what quality I need in cold and in stainless, what is suitable for the application? He is talking about the M-12-O that kind of thing.

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Got it, with the spares...

Here are those tubes;

https://www.bauhaus.se/ror-fyrkanti...Dx0MhA7SPPGyOrEkw-RLEx3UP87IUgRhoCLZwQAvD_BwE

That would do although 20mm is a bit fiddly to work with - as long as you can get the plug in connectors that fit the internal section of that tubing. I’d be more inclined to use 25mm - definitely if doing the 2000 x 1000 as the smaller section tube will tend to flex more. There are several standard sizes of box: 13mm, 16mm, 20mm, 25mm usually in 6.5 metre length, then 30mm, 35mm, 40mm usually in 8 metre length. You can get it pre-painted powder coated. All the small section sizes are usually 1.6mm wall thickness and larger sections 1.6, 2, 2.5 and 3mm.
This becomes important when sourcing the plug in corners!! Make sure the tubing you get has connectors that will fit.

The other supplier is telling me he can get 0,6 mm thickness and is asking me what quality I need in cold and in stainless, what is suitable for the application? He is talking about the M-12-O that kind of thing.

Not sure what M-12-O is - do you have a link?

 

[Sounddesign84]

That would do although 20mm is a bit fiddly to work with - as long as you can get the plug in connectors that fit the internal section of that tubing. I’d be more inclined to use 25mm - definitely if doing the 2000 x 1000 as the smaller section tube will tend to flex more. There are several standard sizes of box: 13mm, 16mm, 20mm, 25mm usually in 6.5 metre length, then 30mm, 35mm, 40mm usually in 8 metre length. You can get it pre-painted powder coated. All the small section sizes are usually 1.6mm wall thickness and larger sections 1.6, 2, 2.5 and 3mm.
This becomes important when sourcing the plug in corners!! Make sure the tubing you get has connectors that will fit.

Not sure what M-12-O is - do you have a link?

Not sure what M-12-O is - Im semy joking, there is a supplier that ask what quality I need the sheet to be in. So I asked him for cold rolled and stainless and he still asks me what quality/kind so to specify exactly I would need to give him a type number in order for him to give me quotes.

25 mm it is then.

 

[Sounddesign84]

Not sure what M-12-O is - Im semy joking, there is a supplier that ask what quality I need the sheet to be in. So I asked him for cold rolled and stainless and he still asks me what quality/kind so to specify exactly I would need to give him a type number in order for him to give me quotes.

25 mm it is then.

Would you by any change happen to know how many meters I would need very rougly approximately for the construction without the dampers?