resurrection of "the brewery is not universally loved because."

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Whoops

Whoops

Well-known member
GDIY Supporter
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
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Portugal
fazer said:
PRR left Group DIY years ago. He got tired of the drama in the brewery. He’s an electronics purest not political hack.
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Yes, unfortunately he left in 2020. It’s shame really, he was in my opinion the most valuable member in this forum.
Extremely knowledgeable, a lot of experience, with a good sense of teaching and a great sense of humour. He was also not afraid of taking his pen and paper and draw a circuit to help you out.

Unfortunately the Brewery section in this forum is the most stupid and brainless section around here , it’s a tumour in an audio electronics forum. A lot or negative discussions and fall outs between members start there in the horrendous political threads. It should be completely removed from this forum.
I don’t need to know that a fellow member in an audio electronics forum is a Right Wing Extremist or an Hardcore American Nationalist.
 
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Whoops said:
Yes, unfortunately he left in 2020. It’s shame really, he was in my opinion the most valuable member in this forum.
Extremely knowledgeable, a lot of experience, with a good sense of teaching and a great sense of humour. He was also not afraid of taking his pen and paper and draw a circuit to help you out.

Unfortunately the Brewery section in this forum is the most stupid and brainless section around here , it’s a tumour in an audio electronics forum. A lot or negative discussions and fall outs between members start there in the horrendous political threads. It should be completely removed from this forum.
I don’t need to know that a fellow member in an audio electronics forum is a Right Wing Extremist or an Hardcore American Nationalist.
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It's pretty easy to avoid the brewery.:cool:

===

Contrary to speculation it is unlikely that Paul (PRR) retired from GDIY because of political discussions, he was frustrated by Ethan's weak administration of storage capacity and likely more. I was often stuck in the middle between Ethan and the forum so became a little frustrated myself.

I even asked Paul if he would consider becoming a moderator here but he was too smart to do that. ;) The last time I talked to Paul he was retired in rural Maine and happy.

===

In case it isn't obvious Paul Wolff is "the" API expert around here.... :unsure:

JR
 
JohnRoberts said:
It's pretty easy to avoid the brewery.:cool:

===

Contrary to speculation it is unlikely that Paul (PRR) retired from GDIY because of political discussions, he was frustrated by Ethan's weak administration of storage capacity and likely more. I was often stuck in the middle between Ethan and the forum so became a little frustrated myself.

I even asked Paul if he would consider becoming a moderator here but he was too smart to do that. ;) The last time I talked to Paul he was retired in rural Maine and happy.

===

In case it isn't obvious Paul Wolff is "the" API expert around here.... :unsure:

JR
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JhonRoberts
Oh man that’s a shame!!

opacheco
 
JohnRoberts said:
It's pretty easy to avoid the brewery.:cool:
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That's exactly one of the problems, is that in reality it's impossible to avoid the "Brewery" malign side effects in other parts of the forum.

That's the first argument avid users of the Brewery use "if you don't like it don't go there",
but in practical terms the hate between members and fall outs that start in the Brewery (most in the Political discussions) extent to the whole forum and to all the sections, and this is just an Audio Electronics forum, no hate should start between members because of opposite Political views when the goal here is audio electronics and DIY, that's what joins us and the purpose of the forum, not discussing Politics.

Also it's clear that members that have heated discussions in the Brewery, then go to other sections of the Forum, Pumped Up with heat from those discussion and dump the hate in other sections.

So the Brewery is really a Virus that unfortunately spreads to the whole forum and when it defeats the purpose of the forum then it stops making any sense.
So like I said in the beginning it's impossible to avoid the Brewery even if you simply don't frequent it.

I think there's no place for it here and should be banished, or at least the discussions on Politics, that would be a good start.
I'm not the only person with this opinion, I know many other members with the same opinion, and by the number of "Likes" in my last post, I truly hope JR that you can also see that many members feel the same.

JohnRoberts said:
Contrary to speculation it is unlikely that Paul (PRR) retired from GDIY because of political discussions, he was frustrated by Ethan's weak administration of storage capacity and likely more. I was often stuck in the middle between Ethan and the forum so became a little frustrated myself.
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For sure he was not happy with the lack of development in the forum structure and administration, but the reason he left was much more to do with other's members reactions towards him when he complained (and he was right in what he was complaining about) than the forum structural problems.
It's a shame because at least the structural problems were solved sometime after he left, although the reactions towards him were not proper, and this is no speculation, his last thread is public and anyone can see it.

Also that was not the only reason, there was more aspects of the forum and community that he was not pleased about. It was a multitude of factors, but that's private.

Like yourself I also talked with Paul after he left, and even tried to convince him to comeback.
For sure he is well, and he is still giving his help in other forums like DIYaudio, DIYstompboxes and El34world, were he is given the value he deserves.

So he didn't lost that much by leaving but GroupDIY forum lost a lot,
he was a regular in the LAB section, and he was the main instigator of keeping threads moving forward in the LAB on a daily basis, he not only helped people out but he also taught people a lot while helping. The LAB section never reached the same level of quality after he left.
This forum is much poor without him and we all as a community lost a lot.

I know that you also valued PRR contributions so I know you understand what I mean
 
they should move the brewery over to gearslutz,

i beg to differ on the reason PRR left, i believe his last post was in the brewery and said something to the effect of "STOP ALL THE HATING!
it was the only time i saw him use bold caps,

and when the hate persisted, he was gone.
 
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CJ said:
they should move the brewery over to gearslutz,
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For sure, that’s were it fits, not here for sure

I really feel that we have to re-think the purpose of this forum and what made it different from other forums.
When I joined Prodigy Pro (old name of GroupDIY forum) was because the hate around here was very low compared to other forums and the politeness was much higher.
Nowadays not some much
 
CJ said:
they should move the brewery over to gearslutz,
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or some members
CJ said:
i beg to differ on the reason PRR left, i believe his last post was in the brewery and said something to the effect of "STOP ALL THE HATING!
it was the only time i saw him use bold caps,
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I can't read his mind, but I just looked at his actual last post(s). Both were complaining about the upload folder , kind of like I said.
CJ said:
and when the hate persisted, he was gone.
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The lack of civility is not unique to our forum, other areas of the internet are worse.

===

This is not the right area for this discussion...I apologize for my part in corrupting this technical thread ( I will delete my comments shortly).

If serious please start a new thread preferably in the brewery (that some of you want to cancel). You could even do a poll there, but i think even that has been done before.

JR
 
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PRR is on DiyAudioforum and I heard he’s still commenting on GS but I haven’t spent anytime. I’m sure there are others. He just likes talking tech and seeing tech people get so partisan creates a new image in your mind. It’s obvious To myself I’ve participated in the political banner and could do lots better. There’s that line. “ Life is short. Be sure you spend more time on the internet arguing with people you don’t know about politics ” Unfortunately I feel like I do know people here from years of reading and interacting on subjects of interest.

I miss PRR and enjoy reading his answers on older threads but I do read his comments on the other forum. I want to take an online course from PRR university on the art of using your brain.
 
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CJ said:
they should move the brewery over to gearslutz,

i beg to differ on the reason PRR left, i believe his last post was in the brewery and said something to the effect of "STOP ALL THE HATING!
it was the only time i saw him use bold caps,

and when the hate persisted, he was gone.
Click to expand...
No, his last post was regarding exactly what John said: Some complaining about image storage.

PRR's exile has been a topic here several times, and, IIRC, Whoops even sent him a e-mail pleading him to come back; obviously it didn't work.

In my opinion, it was an obvious conclusion to what already had been happening, that is, that most of the knowledgeable members of the forum started to leave: Samuel Groner, NYDave, etc... much speculation as to why they left has been discussed; some say that they got tired of contributing without getting anything back, others said that they got tired of people stealing their designs, whilst others claim that, since the number of 'experts' started to decrease, they got tired of just dealing with newbies and assuming a teacher role, rather than discussing designs with their peers.

In any case, it is highly unlikely that any of those guys will ever come back, especially in this new Groupbuilder "Gold and Platinum Packages" era.

P.S. PRR wasn't a peace emissary, he was very sarcastic, rude and opinionated most of the time, albeit with much insight.
 
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user 37518 said:
No, his last post was regarding exactly what John said: Some complaining about image storage.
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thank you
user 37518 said:
PRR's exile has been a topic here several times, and, IIRC, Whoops even sent him a e-mail pleading him to come back; obviously it didn't work.
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PRR was a valued contributor here. I have shared the story about me mailing several boxes of old electronic journals (IEEE, AES, etc) to him when I decided I would never read them and he was the only one who showed any interest.
user 37518 said:
In my opinion, it was an obvious conclusion to what already had been happening, that is, that most of the knowledgeable members of the forum started to leave: Samuel Groner, NYDave, etc... much speculation as to why they left has been discussed; some say that they got tired of contributing without getting anything back, others said that they got tired of people stealing their designs, whilst others claim that, since the number of 'experts' started to decrease, they got tired of just dealing with newbies and assuming a teacher role, rather than discussing designs with their peers.
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I can't read minds but I can still speculate. We don't miss the people who were not contributing who left. I am happy that Paul is apparently alive and well... we have lost some valuable contributors to them taking the proverbial dirt nap RIP.

Speaking for myself it can be irritating how many people want us to just design circuits for them. Over the years I have encouraged the rising stars among us to step up and help newbies, but sometimes their help is not all that helpful. At least one forum member thinks I am picking on him with my corrections, so I ignore even his wrong answers. My answers to old questions the hundredth time can be curt and to all that I may have offended sorry. It can be irritating to hear people complaining about "free advice". :rolleyes:

In case I havent shared this lately, do not private message me with circuit design requests. Back when I used to do that on the clock, I charged $100 hour, but that was a long time ago, I'd ask for more money now if I still had any interest, I dont. Instead I ask all my private consulting requesters to post their questions publicly on the forum so A) somebody else can step up and try to answer, and B) everybody else can learn from their question. That is the purpose of this forum, to educate people (believe it or not).

Our forum software asks new member sign ups what GDIY is about... Some new signups even answer "free help finishing designs", we may need to change our forum header. :unsure:
user 37518 said:
In any case, it is highly unlikely that any of those guys will ever come back, especially in this new Groupbuilder "Gold and Platinum Packages" era.
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Perhaps, but I like to think that GDIY is better than it was. It is human nature to be nostalgic about the "good old days". I also miss some of the giants that left, but think I understand at least a little.
user 37518 said:
P.S. PRR wasn't a peace emissary, he was very sarcastic, rude and opinionated most of the time, albeit with much insight.
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Indeed... it is hard to not get a little snarky when the same old questions, keep getting asked (sometimes we try to amuse ourselves, and my sense of humor can be too dry for some). I am not as kind and sensitive as Abbey.
====
Back on topic, there is a strong feeling of community here. While the focus of the forum is electronic design and I think this forum is an above average resource in that regard, some members feel like sharing other personal sentiments not related to electronics. Looking at the activity in the brewery (the catch-all forum for non-serious topics) we can kind of see what people are thinking about. Years ago I suggested to Ethan that we needed a chat/blog type area where the messages could auto-delete after 24 hours.

We have rules about civility and I am pleased that 99.9% of posters follow the rules. Over the years we have only had to cancel a small handful of chronic rule breakers after multiple warnings.

Be the magic...:cool:

JR
 
NYDave and others left looong before 2020 or even 2016. I had several emails and PMs with some of those folks and their reasons for leaving had nothing to do with politics. A few years after this site started there was a lot less DIY talk and more cloning, kits, and some rampant "borrowing" of certain posted designs for unauthorized commercial use. There was a large influx of people around then who kept asking the same questions (use the search, Luke) and who were either very far beyond their abilities or unwilling to work at figuring things out (or some combination). I spent less time here around then as well.

I wasn't active when PRR exited. I do remember his excellent insights and ability to explain the way he analyzed circuits. He had other music and recording/reproduction-related knowledge as well. But he was impatient and arrogant at times.

Everyone has faults. I know that recognizing my own has helped me to tolerate others. That doesn't mean I won't engage in a discussion in the Brewery that I find important and which has nothing to do with DIY audio. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't hate anyone because of arguments here. Tolerance of other viewpoints is a critical part of society. Disagreements between rational adults shouldn't result in an inability to discuss other topics (DIY, audio tech, music, recording...) that are a shared passion.

Replacing actual tolerance with blind censorship (disallowing certain topics from the Brewery or eliminating it altogether) is a fool's errand. The result will be that those topics will pollute the tech areas or more people will leave. Neither is a good outcome.

I have had heated discussions with several members here, but I still see the knowledge and assistance they share on the other forae here. I've learned things from all of you. I am far from the most knowledgeable person here, but I do what I can to share what I do know. There's no reason we can't be adults and enjoy discussing our mutual interests as well as other topics (in the Brewery).
 
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AnalogPackrat said:
One other suggestion...add a thumbs down complement to the thumbs up in the Brewery. Many times I would just click that rather than write a response. Maybe would reduce the heat somewhat.
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Heaven forbid corrective negative feedback... ;) I think we've considered this before and dismissed it. IIRC there was some discussion about the "likes" making some people feel left out.

I may ask again and see what the response is.

JR
 
PRR took the time to edit one of my janky circuits with a CCS fix.
I miss his encyclopedic insight and consider myself lucky to have found PPro about a year or so before the previous switchover. I felt like an enormous impostor back then, but all I got in return for posting was generous and thoughtful answers... that is...as long as questions of polarity were limited to circuitry.
I love the folks we lost and all of those still here- for the guidance, ideas, schemas, breadcrumbs, and diversity of opinion.
 

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