resurrection of "the brewery is not universally loved because."

[cyrano]

Yeah, it's a very kinky forum

 

[JohnRoberts]

Doing a (very) little research on this, some forums that allow "thumbs down" limit them to only 2 a day per member. That is a red flag to me. I don't think we need to release any more negative energy here. Perhaps we should stick to the available list of positive/neutral reaction responses.

JR

 

[volker]

If I remember correctly we had all those reactions from your picture after the move to the new forum software initially, but the overall consensus of the community was to only keep the normal like/thumbs-up.

 

[cyrano]

That is a red flag to me. I don't think we need to release any more negative energy here.

Why?

Negative isn't necessarily bad. I know several fora who have a "disagree" button. Works well, especially when the OP is posting an opinion and asks others to judge.

Besides, the above clearly shows bias. There's "positive" and "neutral", but no negative. Can't work this way. Even if "mad" is clearly negative.

If you only allow positive reactions, you're really corrupting our ability to judge. Let's call a fool a fool, shall we? Euphemisms are ridiculous. If someone decides you can't use a certain word because it is impolite, you can be damned sure people are creative enough to find another word that's equally maddening to some.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Why?

because amplifying negative sentiment is undesirable?

Negative isn't necessarily bad. I know several fora who have a "disagree" button. Works well, especially when the OP is posting an opinion and asks others to judge.

Negative feedback is a powerful mechanism in control systems. In human interactions it isn't always appreciated.

Besides, the above clearly shows bias. There's "positive" and "neutral", but no negative. Can't work this way. Even if "mad" is clearly negative.

yes, noted, leading me to inquire why?

If you only allow positive reactions, you're really corrupting our ability to judge.

no, but providing easy reaction buttons amplifies casual sentiment.

Let's call a fool a fool, shall we?

Forum rules discourage that.

Euphemisms are ridiculous. If someone decides you can't use a certain word because it is impolite, you can be damned sure people are creative enough to find another word that's equally maddening to some.

Some troll consciously some don't.
====

My personal "knee jerk" opinion was hell yes. Many times I wished I had a "don't like" button. I use the like button often as an easy way to show support and reinforce accurate, correct, statements.

My more thoughtful appraisal is that we don't need to amplify negative sentiment around here. If people want to disagree make them do the extra work.

JR

PS: The privacy crowd should consider that the forum could track forum members use of reaction buttons to gauge sentiment.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

because amplifying negative sentiment is undesirable?

I disagree.

Negative feedback is a powerful mechanism in control systems. In human interactions it isn't always appreciated.

Life isn't all rainbows and unicorns.

yes, noted, leading me to inquire why?

no, but providing easy reaction buttons amplifies casual sentiment.

Then don't complain about arguing.

Forum rules discourage that.

Some troll consciously some don't.
====

My personal "knee jerk" opinion was hell yes. Many times I wished I had a "don't like" button. I use the like button often as an easy way to show support and reinforce accurate, correct, statements.

So which is it?

My more thoughtful appraisal is that we don't need to amplify negative sentiment around here. If people want to disagree make them do the extra work.

Then don't prevent the only alternative that you are allowing.

JR

PS: The privacy crowd should consider that the forum could track forum members use of reaction buttons to gauge sentiment.

Why is that more of a concern than long form text?

 

[scott2000]

Snickers....he said it out loud....

PS: The privacy crowd should consider that the forum could track forum members use of reaction buttons to gauge sentiment.

So don't get discouraged people if others don't like your comments....

 

[JohnRoberts]

I disagree.

have you paid any attention to the rise of cancel culture on social media?

Life isn't all rainbows and unicorns.

no sierra

Then don't complain about arguing.

Nothing wrong with civil argument where knowledge is shared and increased. Like and don't like buttons are more like instant popularity contests than thoughtful exchange of ideas.

So which is it?

"It" isn't anything yet... I am openly exploring this as a possible improvement, but don't want to add fuel to any further deterioration of civility.

Then don't prevent the only alternative that you are allowing.

Huh? Your vote for a thumbs down button has been registered.

Why is that more of a concern than long form text?

Nobody cares enough to scan forum text (we're not like google email) to extract personal data... Reaction "likes" are already logged and accumulated by forum software for the recipients. The same technology could appraise the clickers. This is just wild speculation on my part. Thinking out loud.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

Snickers....he said it out loud....

said what exactly?

So don't get discouraged people if others don't like your comments....

In my experience people don't like negative feedback. At least one member here thinks that I pick on him personally when I correct mis-statements.
===
The bigger picture view is watching how PRC actively tracks the public comments of citizens there and use that ranking to reward or punish them.

JR

 

[Soundwaves]

Lots of forums split off-topic and politics/religion/news. The later is opt-in only. I have proposed we do the same, so if you want to engage in debate topics, you need to request opt in first. Then if you can't do it civilly you are removed from that forum but not the community overall.

 

[beatnik]

The problem of the brewery is that it is allowed to exist in the first place.
Why do we need the political, sociological discussions (often USA centered)? Don't exist dedicated forums for it where the retired angry pensioners can go ?
There are audio electronics forums where this topics are forbidden and there is a much better vibe.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Lots of forums split off-topic and politics/religion/news. The later is opt-in only. I have proposed we do the same, so if you want to engage in debate topics, you need to request opt in first. Then if you can't do it civilly you are removed from that forum but not the community overall.

People already have the option to opt out, just by ignoring, but there is a desire to control what other people do.

==

Another thought about thumbs down reaction scores, what about creating a budget for negative reaction clicks that get subtracted from a member's positive clicks account. This might prevent too much negative "vibe".....

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

People already have the option to opt out, just by ignoring, but there is a desire to control what other people do.

Agreed.

==

Another thought about thumbs down reaction scores, what about creating a budget for negative reaction clicks that get subtracted from a member's positive clicks account. This might prevent too much negative "vibe".....

Because artificially manipulating opinion with zero-sum gaming is not good.

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Lots of forums split off-topic and politics/religion/news. The later is opt-in only. I have proposed we do the same, so if you want to engage in debate topics, you need to request opt in first. Then if you can't do it civilly you are removed from that forum but not the community overall.

Lots of countries strictly control their citizens, too. That doesn't make it a good idea that should be employed elsewhere. IIRC only a minority of members wanted such limitations when a similar poll was run last year. Increasing centralized control and lack of openness isn't a good trend for GroupDIY in my opinion.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

have you paid any attention to the rise of cancel culture on social media?

Yes, of course. How is a thumbs-down cancelling? It could be a way to diffuse some more heated discussions. As for cancelling, suggestions to remove forum access for some ill-defined offense seem to fit that category.

no sierra

Nothing wrong with civil argument where knowledge is shared and increased. Like and don't like buttons are more like instant popularity contests than thoughtful exchange of ideas.

Knowledge isn't always increased even when shared. I always prefer discourse to clicks.

"It" isn't anything yet... I am openly exploring this as a possible improvement, but don't want to add fuel to any further deterioration of civility.

Huh? Your vote for a thumbs down button has been registered.

I was simply trying to advocate for a possible mitigation for some heated discussions.

Nobody cares enough to scan forum text (we're not like google email) to extract personal data..

Everyone is doing that now and the data are shared across platforms. This was less likely to occur when this site was privately run than now.

. Reaction "likes" are already logged and accumulated by forum software for the recipients.

Yes.

The same technology could appraise the clickers.

Text analysis along with other meta-data are far more valuable. Things like what types of products, services, and politics does the member prefer or discuss are where the spy-value lie.

This is just wild speculation on my part. Thinking out loud.

It's not speculation. This stuff has been going on in the private sector for close to two decades now.

JR

 

[Whoops]

The problem of the brewery is that it is allowed to exist in the first place.
Why do we need the political, sociological discussions (often USA centered)? Don't exist dedicated forums for it where the retired angry pensioners can go ?
There are audio electronics forums where this topics are forbidden and there is a much better vibe.

Exactly,
there's no need for those type of discussions around here, it doesn't add anything, no one will change their political view because another member posted an opposite ideology here, people will argue, some get mad, others hate each other but in the end it didn't go anywhere, no one changed their mind.

This is an DIY Audio Electronics forum, there's other forums very specific for Politics, Sociology and there's probably quite a few only USA centered.
Why don't use those ones for those type of discussion and leave this one more pure to it's core and with good vibes?

It's strange that we were discussing about the Political discussions in the Brewery, a really important topic and something that could really improve this forum and then somewhat the center is to have a a Like or Dislike button, or a "Smile" or "Sad", Really? And there's a pool for it?

The Like button is fine, it works, don't need to make it more complicated, but the ridiculous off forum topic discussions in the brewery are a disgrace, and the Pool should be about that...

 

[Whoops]

People already have the option to opt out, just by ignoring

I completely disagree with that, no one has that option, it's impossible to ignore when it spreads to the whole forum as I previously explained.

Everyone that doesn't hang out in the Brewery engaging in those discussions, doesn't have the option to not see and feel the hate that started in the Brewery in the the DIY audio threads.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I completely disagree with that, no one has that option, it's impossible to ignore when it spreads to the whole forum as I previously explained.

Everyone that doesn't hang out in the Brewery engaging in those discussions, doesn't have the option to not see and feel the hate that started in the Brewery in the the DIY audio threads.

You are repeating yourself.

Personal attacks and generally hateful comments (regarding race, religion, gender, sex, etc...) will not be tolerated.

Please report the hate that you see posted in GDIY forums.... especially if it involves "hateful comments, regarding race religion, gender, sex, etc.." as specifically called out by Ethan.

JR

 

[Whoops]

You are repeating yourself.

You also repeated yourself

 

[AnalogPackrat]

I completely disagree with that, no one has that option, it's impossible to ignore when it spreads to the whole forum as I previously explained.

I regularly scan the various discussions in the different sub-forums here and ignore topics that don't interest me (be they technical, social, political, or otherwise). Try harder. It isn't your prerogative to control what others want to say or think.

Everyone that doesn't hang out in the Brewery engaging in those discussions, doesn't have the option to not see and feel the hate that started in the Brewery in the the DIY audio threads.

Hate? Hardly. Disagreement is a normal part of life. I've not seen the spillover you assert. Post examples.