resurrection of "the brewery is not universally loved because."

[pucho812]

NYDave and others left looong before 2020 or even 2016. I had several emails and PMs with some of those folks and their reasons for leaving had nothing to do with politics. A few years after this site started there was a lot less DIY talk and more cloning, kits, and some rampant "borrowing" of certain posted designs for unauthorized commercial use. There was a large influx of people around then who kept asking the same questions (use the search, Luke) and who were either very far beyond their abilities or unwilling to work at figuring things out (or some combination). I spent less time here around then as well.

I wasn't active when PRR exited. I do remember his excellent insights and ability to explain the way he analyzed circuits. He had other music and recording/reproduction-related knowledge as well. But he was impatient and arrogant at times.

Everyone has faults. I know that recognizing my own has helped me to tolerate others. That doesn't mean I won't engage in a discussion in the Brewery that I find important and which has nothing to do with DIY audio. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't hate anyone because of arguments here. Tolerance of other viewpoints is a critical part of society. Disagreements between rational adults shouldn't result in an inability to discuss other topics (DIY, audio tech, music, recording...) that are a shared passion.

Replacing actual tolerance with blind censorship (disallowing certain topics from the Brewery or eliminating it altogether) is a fool's errand. The result will be that those topics will pollute the tech areas or more people will leave. Neither is a good outcome.

I have had heated discussions with several members here, but I still see the knowledge and assistance they share on the other forae here. I've learned things from all of you. I am far from the most knowledgeable person here, but I do what I can to share what I do know. There's no reason we can't be adults and enjoy discussing our mutual interests as well as other topics (in the Brewery).

yes, I have had similar discussions with some these folks off site at aes and other conventions. the rampant copying of work and making it commercial was a huge turn off. The paint by numbers crew has the money to start companies these days. It’s why there are so many stereo vca compressors that are basically a gssl with side chain filter.
as for those who left for whatever reason, I wish them well and hope they are well in their lives.
I can’t think of anyone who left over the brewery but if they did, show me on the doll where they brewery hurt you?
in the end we all make choices, pick which works best for you. As for the brewery itself, it’s not hard to avoid it if you choose to. I think we are all adults here, and can police ourselves, when it comes to if we want to view a post or not. I also think we can discuss anything and everything because we are all adults. I would ask a penny for my thoughts but I might have to give you back change. Be well be safe and do you.

 

[beatnik]

I can’t think of anyone who left over the brewery but if they did, show me on the doll where they brewery hurt you?

Why should we risk losing even ONE single member that is genuinely interested in electronics, just for the sake of allowing others to have divisive debates completely unrelated to electronics ? What is more important ? What is the actual purpose of this forum ?

Some of you are acting defensively like there is a danger to freedom of speech, but you all live in a democratic state where you are allowed to discuss everything and everywhere. Why do you need this forum as a champion of free speech ? The majority of us already have plenty of that in our daily lives - thankfully.

In my experience those who are overly passionate about politics, daily affairs, etc. usually want this passion to spread around like a cancer.
They feel entitled to have these kind of debates at every possible occasion. They crave a stage where to practice this passion and somehow this place has been hacked and became yet another platform for them.

Nobody would do the same with a different kind of topic, let's say electronics. You would discuss it only when certain conditions are met.
For some reason people who are passionate about politics etc. most of the times feel entitled they should be allowed to have these discussions anytime, anywhere, with anybody.
You are only left with ignoring them, because very often if you point out it's not the right situation to talk about these matters, you risk being told you are attacking their freedom of speech.

Unfortunately the brewery will remain the same because essentially the decision whether it should exist or not is left in the hands of people who actually love it the way it is.
Either you ignore it, or you are an enemy of freedom.

I cannot fully understand what the rules of the forum are, I often read John Roberts referencing to some list of "Ethan rules".
Tell me if I am blind but I don't see this list of rules anywhere, the "terms and rules" section of the website is only talking about something related to intellectual property.

Anyways Ethan has sold the forum and left, why are we still referencing to his rules ?
Please point me out to where is the code of conduct of this forum because I cannot find it.

All I can see at the top of the brewery section is that personal attacks are strictly moderated, and actually me and other users recently pointed out serious concerns about the system.
Not only nothing has changed but also the related threads have been censored and deleted from the forum, which didn't look like a great display of freedom of speech.

The way things have been handled last time doesn't make me feel there is any hope for change on this occasion either.
Like in many other aspects of our life, democracy is only an illusion.

 

[Brian Roth]

I read but seldom reply to politics on the Brewery. And it DOES pollute other threads here on my favorite forum. Someone will ask "where?". I'll find examples. Trust me...

Let's all remove our MAGA hats and Antifa clothes and make this wonderful forum focused on things like opamps and inductors!

<g>


Bri

 

[Script]

should we add more reaction icons
love (positive)
haha (positive)
wow (neutral)
sad (neutral)
angry (neutral)

I miss two answers in the poll that I'd tick:

"No, more icons are NOT needed."

"The 'Like' button should he renamed 'Agree'.

 

[Brian Roth]

"The 'Like' button should he renamed 'Agree'.

AMEN!

 

[beatnik]

If you want to have a proof of what a shit show the brewery can become and how its system is fundamentally flawed have a look at the Ukraine thread.

A massive war just broke out and somebody here thought it was a good idea to have our own war within the forum.
The thread started as just a message of support to the civilians in Ukraine, and quickly has been hijacked into a political debate, with russian supporters, pro peace, know-it-all, all fighting each other, with the only one moderator picking fights instead of moderating.

Thankfully the kids have moved on to new toys and the thread has cooled down. But the problems remain and will come out in other situations, because there is no intention to get to the root.

 

[beatnik]

It seems the thread started with again a concern about the brewery itself, and the dissent has been quickly silenced and hijacked moving it on a useless discussion about response buttons.

Hope I don't break any rule by repeating myself... but I really believe there is no intention from above to fix certain things and as users we don't have the instruments to obtain change. We simply have to accept the rules imposed on us, whatever they are please tell me...

 

[scott2000]

the thread started with again a concern about the brewery itself

There are 425 pages of threads in the Brewery. Looking quick, politics, actually a thread called politics, pops up pretty early on. Guess it could be interesting to look at the issues of those days gone by and how the discourse was but that's a lot of work.
Maybe the Brewery could be broken up into sub topics with catchy names. so not to easily ensnare the unsuspecting.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I cannot fully understand what the rules of the forum are, I often read John Roberts referencing to some list of "Ethan rules".
Tell me if I am blind but I don't see this list of rules anywhere, the "terms and rules" section of the website is only talking about something related to intellectual property.

Welcome to our community!
I see a lot of new members!
So that everyone can have an enjoyable experience with minimal friction please read the following basic guidelines before posting.

1. Absolutely NO SPAM. This is just obvious internet etiquette. If you suspect that what you will be posting might be interpreted as SPAM, don't post it. SPAM will be deleted.

2. Absolutely NO pornography, sexually offensive comments, or links that lead to outside sites that contain similar material will be permitted here.

3. Topics involving the exchange of money should be kept only to the Black Market or White Market.

4. You will find that the members of this community are courteous and respectful of each other, so please reciprocate those gestures. Leave the flame-war mentality at another forum. Personal attacks and generally hateful comments (regarding race, religion, gender, sex, etc...) will not be tolerated.

5. Do not register with additional usernames.

6. Use the search function (thoroughly) before posting. It's possible your question may have already been answered by knowledgeable members that have been generous with their time. A tremendous wealth of knowledge is actively updated and compiled in the "Meta" threads--take advantage of them.

7. GroupDIY.com claims absolutely no liability for any damages that may result from the use of these forums. All posted statements are the opinions of the respective author(s). By using this site, the user is in agreement that GroupDIY.com is exempt from any liability to the fullest extent of applicable laws.

Thanks and enjoy!
-Ethan

Anyways Ethan has sold the forum and left, why are we still referencing to his rules ?

Ethan never announced a sale or transfer, so until we hear otherwise he is in charge.

Please point me out to where is the code of conduct of this forum because I cannot find it.

link to ethans rules Its in the Forum Help and Announcements sub forum.

All I can see at the top of the brewery section is that personal attacks are strictly moderated,

I had that added to reinforce civility here. Herding cats is not easy.

and actually me and other users recently pointed out serious concerns about the system.

you personal opinions are noted

Not only nothing has changed but also the related threads have been censored and deleted from the forum, which didn't look like a great display of freedom of speech.

we delete threads almost daily when rules are broken... mostly spammers.

The way things have been handled last time doesn't make me feel there is any hope for change on this occasion either.
Like in many other aspects of our life, democracy is only an illusion.

You have free choice.

There is a parade of new members signing up every day. 82,000 + and climbing.

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

If you want to have a proof of what a shit show the brewery can become and how its system is fundamentally flawed have a look at the Ukraine thread.

I haven't seen it. Why? Because I don't want to discuss that topic. See how that works?

The "lose just one member" argument falls flat, too. First, the safe space theory is fundamentally flawed. Second, how do you know people won't leave if over-moderation is rolled out or if The Brewery is eliminated?

A massive war just broke out and somebody here thought it was a good idea to have our own war within the forum.

Didn't see it.

The thread started as just a message of support to the civilians in Ukraine, and quickly has been hijacked into a political debate, with russian supporters, pro peace, know-it-all, all fighting each other, with the only one moderator picking fights instead of moderating.

In your opinion.

Thankfully the kids have moved on to new toys and the thread has cooled down. But the problems remain and will come out in other situations, because there is no intention to get to the root.

Because disagreements are a normal part of life. A little tolerance is preferable to the heavy hand of authority.

 

[fazer]

Please remove my name as starting this festering bag of puss for a thread. And name it Dante’s Inferno. That’s a very Disgusting reply above.

 

[scott2000]

Maggot infested gut wagon

 

[rock soderstrom]

A small addendum: No one needs a hothead here who poisons the atmosphere with the support of a few friendly America-first minions. These guys also only show up in the brewery, otherwise nothing useful comes from them anymore. The brewery can be deleted, this is Wyatt Earp Land, this has nothing to do with groupdiy.com anymore.

 

[rock soderstrom]

Please remove my name as starting this festering bag of puss for a thread. And name it Dante’s Inferno. That’s a very Disgusting reply above.

I also find personal threats disgusting!

 

[JohnRoberts]

For better or worse, (probably worse) I figured out how to resurrect that thread....

Enjoy....

BTW have you guys read the rules....?

JR

 

[scott2000]

lol

 

[Whoops]

Thanks for bringing this thread back JR,
I understand somewhere along the line there were offensive posts in this thread, I was not around then, I can see that those were probably removed.
I'm sorry that somehow a thread that shared opinions about improving the forum went downhill. I hope that if the conversations continue that they are civilized and respectful, and I just ask for your consideration of what was presented here in the first place.

I will not continuing posting here because I already presented what I feel to you guys and to the next ones that might see this thread in the future,
I wish just the best for this forum and community and that good decisions to make it healthier and preserve it are taken for now and for the future.

Just to add that I agree with everything that CJ, john12ax7, beatnik and Brian Roth said regarding the Brewery, and a lot of people that would agree with us also will not view this thread or share their opinion here because they simple don't frequent the Brewery.
I too, would not have seen this thread if it didn't have started in another section in the forum,
I don't frequent the Brewery and don't engage in any of the Politcal/War related/sociologic discussions, and I do exactly what some members suggested it was easy to do, simply "ignore it", and although I precisely do that I feel the echos of the negative side effects of the Brewery discussions spread to the other DIY electronics related sections of the forum.

For those of who that don't know, this didn't start as a rant out of nowhere, this started as a side discussion in a tech thread and as the conversation grew and was out of topic in that thread it was split to here in the brewery, I'm the first poster now because of the split, which I don't mind, but I didn't start the discussion.

Peace to you all

 

[fazer]

I also find personal threats disgusting!

The post that’s missing and I found offensive was your post RS. And I see it’s not included now in the repost. so you removed it before the crash of the thread or something. Anyway It was a very personal attack on JR

 

[beatnik]

I have pointed out this issue already, we can press the ignore button on regular members but not on moderators.

Defenders of the brewery suggest if you don't want to see something just ignore it.

Unfortunately this is not entirely allowed by the current system.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes, well, you just might find
You get what you need