Roland Juno Chorus by TC
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scott2000
Well-known member
cool!
Ive seens some of Markus's vids before ,really knowledgeable on keyboard stuff , I like that 70's style keys sound, Jarre and Vangelis were great exponents of this Euro sound . Im not a player ,but the old analog keys always sounded superior to digital , the digital recreations tended to sound stepped or slightly glitchy by comparison .
scott2000
Well-known member
Tubetec said:
Yeah I saw Deadmau5 show a really good example of sorts . It was extremely apparent .
That being said Behringer's model D, Neutron, etc, and now this hopefully accurate recreation... Hardware analog becomes almost cheaper than software.
Not to forget Behringer's V-Verb and couple of other units that went under the radar, like Space C chorus.
Not to forget Behringer's V-Verb and couple of other units that went under the radar, like Space C chorus.
Bo Deadly
Well-known member
V-Verb is digital which I would not trust to properly model the highly non-linear behavior of something like an overdriven BBD circuit.kingkorg said:
The Space Chorus C uses the coolaudio 1024 stage bbd which has an SNR of only 73dB vs the significantly better 88dB of the Panasonic MN3009 used in the Juno Chorus. And the Dimension D is a little different from the Juno Chorus anyway (see aforementioned schematic of Juno 6 chorus board).
There is an MN3009 on small bear electronics. Current stock 79. There's no datasheet but I'm inclined to think that the chip will probably match or slightly exceed the performance of the original (the coolaudio V3207 datasheet lists the same specs as the MN3207). Performance is largely set by BBD tech limits and not manufacturing processes.
But if that MN3009 on small bear is 88dB and matches specs of the original, that could be used to make a proper Juno 6 chorus clone.
If someone has access to a TC June 60 Chorus, what chips does it have inside? Post a pic.
I don't recall ever seeing a BBD with 88 dB S/N but admittedly I haven't messed with them since the late 70's early 80s.
The S/N is also a function of clock frequency (signal degrades the longer it sits in buckets),, so 88dB at what delay? Some of the Reticon CCD delay devices were pretty quiet but they had their own response quirks, and are long gone AFAIK.
or never mind... just peering dimly through the cobwebs of decades ago bench work.
JR
The S/N is also a function of clock frequency (signal degrades the longer it sits in buckets),, so 88dB at what delay? Some of the Reticon CCD delay devices were pretty quiet but they had their own response quirks, and are long gone AFAIK.
or never mind... just peering dimly through the cobwebs of decades ago bench work.
JR
scott2000
Well-known member
JohnRoberts said:
I had to turn my heart away
I mentioned V Verb as a great unit in general, Lexicon alternative and way too inexpensive.
It does have Dimension D preset, does the job pretty well. However, like i said i have never heard the unit that does Juno C thing spot on.
Noise doesnt concern me to be honest as long as the thing sounds like it should.
I doubt anyone has it yet, as it's just released. Hopefully i will get it in couple of weeks, and open it as soon as possible.
It does have Dimension D preset, does the job pretty well. However, like i said i have never heard the unit that does Juno C thing spot on.
Noise doesnt concern me to be honest as long as the thing sounds like it should.
I doubt anyone has it yet, as it's just released. Hopefully i will get it in couple of weeks, and open it as soon as possible.
scott2000
Well-known member
fazer said:
lol
zamproject
Well-known member
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fazer said:
Like a boss ;D
Best
Zam
untune
Well-known member
This could be a nice little pedal for fifty quid, if it nails that sound.
I modified a Boss CE-300 for line level, a lot of people said that was the closest you could get to the Juno chorus and it sounds really good, although cleaner than the noisy Juno (part of the charm
)
I modified a Boss CE-300 for line level, a lot of people said that was the closest you could get to the Juno chorus and it sounds really good, although cleaner than the noisy Juno (part of the charm
)
dmp
Well-known member
Nice description of a Boss BBD chorus (similar to the Juno):
https://www.electrosmash.com/boss-ce-2-analysis
Attached is a more complete schematic from the juno 6 (60 & 6 have the same chorus, the 60 just broke it out onto a different PCB). You can see the complete oscillator circuit going to the MN3101 (p5&7) with the SW4 and SW5. It's a sawtooth like the CE-2 and modulates the delay of the MN3009. The delayed signal coming from the MN3009 is mixed back with the dry signal on both the L&R outputs. Two MN3009 are used to create a stereo output.
FWIW the biggest sound difference from BBD analog delays comes from the anti-aliasing LPF before the BBD chip. In effect the wet signal has no high end (greater than 8k-10k Hz or so). If you take a digital delay or delay plug in and LPF it and mix it back to your dry signal it will sound much more 'analog delay'
https://www.electrosmash.com/boss-ce-2-analysis
Attached is a more complete schematic from the juno 6 (60 & 6 have the same chorus, the 60 just broke it out onto a different PCB). You can see the complete oscillator circuit going to the MN3101 (p5&7) with the SW4 and SW5. It's a sawtooth like the CE-2 and modulates the delay of the MN3009. The delayed signal coming from the MN3009 is mixed back with the dry signal on both the L&R outputs. Two MN3009 are used to create a stereo output.
FWIW the biggest sound difference from BBD analog delays comes from the anti-aliasing LPF before the BBD chip. In effect the wet signal has no high end (greater than 8k-10k Hz or so). If you take a digital delay or delay plug in and LPF it and mix it back to your dry signal it will sound much more 'analog delay'
Attachments
Being both key and guitar player i realized guitar players and key players experience fundamentaly different chorus fx. Guitar world uses it in mono, key players consider this absurd 
Juno is stereo, Boss CE2 is mono.
I pulled my credit card out when i saw TC made Dimension C clone, only to realize just when i was about to enter my pin code they made it MONO! What a fail! :-\
Juno is stereo, Boss CE2 is mono.
I pulled my credit card out when i saw TC made Dimension C clone, only to realize just when i was about to enter my pin code they made it MONO! What a fail! :-\
I got my hands on one of the Behringer v-verb units , I think it gives a lexicon pcm70 a good run for its money , its a lot better than tc electronic M one also , definately by far the best efx unit Behringer ever made , I read somewhere Uli stopped making it because the parts were scarce ,but I also heard there might have been some kind of court case relating to it over intellectual property ,who knows . I think I bought mine towards the end of the product line ,that and the ada8000 (which I removed the mic amps from ) have always worked great for me .
shot
Well-known member
Tubetec said:
I think I've read somewhere that V-Verb is a ripoff of the Kurzweil's Rumor. If I remember correctly. And Kurzweil sued them.
Still, I love that unit. I got it many years ago and it's very nice. Bang for the buck!
Luka
Damn, it hasn't even arrived, and i am already regretting buying it...
This sounds nothing like Juno chorus. Too wobbly, almost like a tremolo, and not nearly as wide. AAAARRRRGHHHH!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spOuPFk1Xo8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaFlMeLPp90
This sounds nothing like Juno chorus. Too wobbly, almost like a tremolo, and not nearly as wide. AAAARRRRGHHHH!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spOuPFk1Xo8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaFlMeLPp90
scott2000
Well-known member
Well maybe the width is an internet thing to some degree?? :-\
