Searching for a good dynamic mic capsule - pimp my Schumann MDS 3

[rock soderstrom]

Hi,

everybody is building condenser mics, there is a "big" market for capsules, bodies, PCBs, capsule holder and even PSUs, you can get almost everything. Nowadays microphone DIY is at its peak, especially if you compare it with the situation twenty years a go and you are planning to build a condenser microphone.

Under certain conditions, as a singer, I prefer dynamic microphones that I sing at with a little more distance, similiar I would do it with a LDC mic.

I like Beyerdynamic M201, M101, Sennheiser MD21, 421 and 441 for that job. (I am more a Beyer fanboy) I am "shure" there are a lot of other very good dynamic microphones out there, I just do not really know them.

After all this bla bla, here are my questions. I want to equip an empty Schumann MDS3 doner body  with a decent dynamic capsule. What should I do? Searching ebay for beaten old mics to rip out the capsule? Should I try to get a new one directly from the manufacturers? Are there any chinese options? Why is there no real market for high quality dynamic capsules? I am happy about any advice and I am looking forward for your input.

Here is Link to a YouTube Video, where you can see/hear an original Schumann MDS3 in action.

https://youtu.be/l0n-lsIYQN0

Cheers

 

[Recording Engineer]

My guess as to why there is no real market for high-quality dynamic capsules is due to the price of a brand new or used, fully-completed high-quality dynamic microphones is relatively cheap.

So, broken dynamic capsule in a no-longer manufactured microphone, most just try to find another full-working mic of the same model. Should they not find that, they find and use something else to their liking.

When it comes to just liking the look of an old dynamic mic, people will just put whatever is their liking into that body. I don’t think most people do that though.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

you can see/hear an original Schumann MDS3 in action.

This form factor was quite common in the 50's and 60's, but has been more or less abandoned today. The reason is singers think it hides their best features. 
The  ice-cream cone "standard" established by Shure also has some advantages that side-adress mics lack. The handheld format allows more freedom in the capsule tuning, by offering a longer rear chamber. The iconic AKG D12 compensated that by using a resonator.
To my knowledge there are only 3 commonly available side-address dynamics, the Sennheiser 609/906, the Superlux PRA38 and the CAD D80. All these mics have a subdued LF response, compared to a typical SM58.
You can find equivalent replacement cartridges for SM57/58 or Beta 57/58 at Alibaba, but they are probably too deep for your body.
An alternative is the Neumann BCM705, but the overall form factor is not favourable, not mentioning the price!

 

[Recording Engineer]

Add MXL’s CR77 and V900D to that list of side-address dynamics.

 

[rock soderstrom]

My guess as to why there is no real market for high-quality dynamic capsules is due to the price of a brand new or used, fully-completed high-quality dynamic microphones is relatively cheap

Yeah, that sounds convincing.  You can't save a lot of money with rolling your own dynamic microphone. Little demand - little offers.

I don’t think most people do that though.

...so I'm a weirdo?  ;D

 

[rock soderstrom]

This form factor was quite common in the 50's and 60's, but has been more or less abandoned today. The reason is singers think it hides their best features. 
The  ice-cream cone "standard" established by Shure also has some advantages that side-adress mics lack. The handheld format allows more freedom in the capsule tuning, by offering a longer rear chamber. The iconic AKG D12 compensated that by using a resonator.
To my knowledge there are only 3 commonly available side-address dynamics, the Sennheiser 609/906, the Superlux PRA38 and the CAD D80. All these mics have a subdued LF response, compared to a typical SM58.
You can find equivalent replacement cartridges for SM57/58 or Beta 57/58 at Alibaba, but they are probably too deep for your body.
An alternative is the Neumann BCM705, but the overall form factor is not favourable, not mentioning the price!

LOL, I like the idea to hide behind a big microphone. Thanks for your info about the rear chamber. Yes, its true, the replacement cartridges at Alibaba are probably too deep, I have just ordered one, I will test it. Neumann is too expensive for my budget 

 

[rodaffleck]

If it can fit, this one might be worth a look: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1645674720.html

I believe it is the capsule  that came installed in a Chinese Shure 55 knockoff that I picked up a while ago from the same company and Ali seller. It also looks like the capsule that Heil uses in their PR30 and derivatives, but I can't say one way or the other if it is the same internally. The back of the capsule in my fake 55 has "797" printed on the circuit board. I had no idea they made OEM dynamic capsules, but here we are.

I like the sound of it. More proximity effect than an SM57, gives my voice a smooth radio announcer kind of vibe. But I haven't really put it through its paces yet so I don't know how it will stack up in a mix.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Add MXL’s CR77 and V900D to that list of side-address dynamics.

For vocals, yes. But unsuitable for micing guitar cabinets the way of a Sennheiser 906.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

If it can fit, this one might be worth a look: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1645674720.html

I think this can't be fitted in the form factor of OP's mic...

 

[Recording Engineer]

For vocals, yes. But unsuitable for micing guitar cabinets the way of a Sennheiser 906.

I most certainly agree. They do work on acoustic guitars too though, if you want ultra-bright without harshness to cut through the mix. Although, now that I’m thinking of it, I did try the CR77 on a Mesa Boogie Triple-Rectifer Half-Stack once and it sounded great, but way too bright for the application at that time.

 

[rock soderstrom]

If it can fit, this one might be worth a look: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1645674720.html

I believe it is the capsule  that came installed in a Chinese Shure 55 knockoff that I picked up a while ago from the same company and Ali seller. It also looks like the capsule that Heil uses in their PR30 and derivatives, but I can't say one way or the other if it is the same internally. The back of the capsule in my fake 55 has "797" printed on the circuit board. I had no idea they made OEM dynamic capsules, but here we are.

I like the sound of it. More proximity effect than an SM57, gives my voice a smooth radio announcer kind of vibe. But I haven't really put it through its paces yet so I don't know how it will stack up in a mix.

Thanks rodaffleck,

it is always good to hear personal experiences. I will order a pair.  I guess Abbey is right, at best it just fits into the body but I am not sure. I am not at home at the moment so I cannot measure the avaible space inside .

I have just ordered a pair of these. Member kingkorg likes them very much:

https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=66946.0

Nice stuff to play around with and cheap. 

On the other side, a different form factor would be better for the Schumann body. I am looking for Grundig GDSM 202 or better a GDSM  200 (quite expensive), sometimes you can find them pretty cheap on ebay Kleinanzeigen here in Germany. A Grundig labeled Sennheiser MD21 could be a good solution, too.

Any offers here?

Cheers

 

[rock soderstrom]

Alternative idea: For little more money I could stuff a Bumbelbee ribbon motor and transformer inside the mic. Hmm?  :

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I am looking for Grundig GDSM 202 or better a GDSM  200 (quite expensive), sometimes you can find them pretty cheap on ebay Kleinanzeigen here in Germany. A Grundig labeled Sennheiser MD21 could be a good solution, too.

Aren't they all omni mics? I most certainly think the MD21 is omni.

 

[rock soderstrom]

Aren't they all omni mics? I most certainly think the MD21 is omni.

Only the MD21 is a omni, the other two are cardoids. Nothing wrong with omnis in my usage. All three are equiped with Sennheiser cartridges.

Steve Winwood even used it on stage. I prefer to use with a little more distance during recording. Sounds good on accustic guitar as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xcxYX8KPhGk

 

[rock soderstrom]

Ok, I am back home. Here is a short animation that shows the microphone and its guts. As you can see, the pre owner of this body had a similar idea. He installed a XLR connector with a soldering stunt. Cool, I like it.  That is a perfect platform to test some capsules,  even the deep chinese replacement capsules will fit, there is enough space inside.

Cheers

click photo for animation

 

[analogguru]

If it can fit, this one might be worth a look: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1645674720.html
.....

Hmmm...... I don't know, but this one looks more convincing to me:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-St%C3%BCck-professionelle-Mikrofonkapsel/123829918867?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

 

[rock soderstrom]

Thanks for your contribution. Why do you prefer this capsule? Do you have experience with this cartridge? Cheers

 

[analogguru]

Thanks for your contribution. Why do you prefer this capsule? Do you have experience with this cartridge? Cheers

Hmmm.... I got 2 pcs last week, didn't have time to test them, but from holding them in hand and inspecting them I have to say that they appear to be a serious product.

 

[rock soderstrom]

Ok. If you find the time to test them, I am interested in your verdict...

 

[rock soderstrom]

The chinese "kingkorg" cardoid capsule has arrived. Here are a few shots. does anyone know in which microphones they were originally installed?

Click for GIF animation.