should i dare wire/connect my vintage Neve 1272`s myself? or go to pro?

[canidoit]

Someone should have just sold you what you requested on your initial post or left you alone instead of flaming you for asking to buy a finished unit.

Try posting an eagle eye view pic of your stuff and label exactly what you would like to know about, maybe that will make it more clear to some people here?

Then people can just say, see lug A, you wire that to connector 6 on the unit or they can digitally alter the pic you posted. I think people would be interested in the solutions with the problems you are having and in the future other DIY'er wanting to do what your doing can learn from it easier with all the pics included. You know the saying, a picture says 1000 words.

 

[ion]

hi
yes i think i should do that (again)

will post close up pics tomorrow





@alexc

hmmm gonna ask him again than and tell him you said so

this is of course bad if i get to different instrustions... than i really am clueless

from your description tho i cant really translate it to the situation because the 5k pot i bought have 3 pins sticking up on the top in a circle-like form... not top/middle/bottom/ but L/M/R

 

[ion]

 

[Biasrocks]

It looks like someone already did a number on your 1272.

Non-original resistors, gain control,  caps and transistors.  I would first get it
restored back to original before doing anything more to it.

Hope you didn't pay a pant load for it.

Mark

 

[ion]

uhm yes

as stated originaly the GAIN is a stepepd gain pot now not a nonstepped like it originaly is... well this is a good thing no?


caps... well i did changed those on the PCB myself as those old ones in there seemed to have been the 20-30 years old originals


but resitors and transitors????? can you tell me more? according to API these are all original beside the added stepped Gain mod

i paid 1k euro for it :-\ (2 modules)

 

[Biasrocks]

but resitors and transitors????? can you tell me more? according to API these are all original beside the added stepped Gain mod

i paid 1k euro for it :-\ (2 modules)

If you changed the electrolytics on the BA283 card that's not a problem.

If the tantalum caps have been replaced with electrolytics it will not sound like a Neve anymore.

This is what I can see so far,

The resistors are all non-original metal film types,
The output transistor is an RCA, original would be Motorola.
The BC184's have been socketed, stock would be soldered directly to the BA283 card.
Are they BC184C types?

The original 1272 gain control was the 5K output trim which affects the NFB of the output
section only. Your gain switch changes the NFB on the pre-amp and output stages more like
a 1073. But, if the new gain control goes past 50db, it will not sound like a 1073 mic-pre anymore.

1272's were original designed as line amps and are only good up until 50db or so. On a 1073
this is where an additional gain stage kicks in to give you an extra 20-30db of gain. You would
have to examine the NFB resistors on the gain switch to determine how much gain is being
applied on each of the two stages. If going beyond that 50db point you would need to add
another pre-amp stage and a third deck to the gain switch to keep things sounding right.

See the EZ1290 project or a 1073 schematic for how this is implemented.

If you take some more pics I could probably tell you more.

This is what a stock BA283AV looks like.

Mark

 

[ion]

WTF?

i feel cheated here... i did not even hear these ever adn putting so much time into it and plan to put money into it to get them completed

and you tell me they wont even sound like Neves anymore?

what is the f%$"ing point i bought the original vintage modules for a lot more cash than a clone for if they are everything but originaly anymore?


i am really pissed...

will upload more pics in a few minutes

 

[MartyMart]

Ion, I have an original Motorola output transistor if you want one, just PM me.

Marty.

 

[ion]

thanks that is very kind and i may get back to you about it but i dont know how much of a change they will make and if they will make the unit sound as it originaly should! i dunno what dozens of other htings that seemed to have been changed would contribute to its original sound qualities

i may as well send them back to API ! i feel certainly cheated here

why should I be responsible for haunting for those parts now, while he told me they are all-origianl beside the Gain mod (wich i wanted)

good that i paid not the full 1k so far but 800,- desposit......still this isnt funny

anyway here some more pics





great my divshare somehow does not show the new uploaded pictures...  no idea whats going on there

madness

anyway earlier in this thread i posted this pic allready wich should show the PCB facts!?

 

[[silent:arts]]

...
i feel cheated here... i did not even hear these ever adn putting so much time into it and plan to put money into it to get them completed

and you tell me they wont even sound like Neves anymore?

what is the f%$"ing point i bought the original vintage modules for a lot more cash than a clone for if they are everything but originaly anymore?


i am really pissed...

kalm down, stay cool 

for sure you won' hear the difference between RCA and Motorola.
who said Neve used Motorola only?
what is the original Neve sound?
do all vintage modules sound the same?

we both have had discussions about this before if you remember (via pm).
but you seam to be "Beratungsresistent".

API sold you two modified units, with modifications (stepped gain control),
at least you have known before buying. and I'm sure API knows what he does. trusted member.

Biasrocks might not have followed the hole story before.
he would be right with the comments if you would have bought them as "original vintage Neve 1272, like API, Telefunken, Neumann etc"

but not in this case. those are original units, with modifications, may be repaired with other brands, but for sure working. nothing else you requested.

 

[ion]

hi Volker

well but what is the whole sense to get an origianl vintage module (with gain mod) if all the parts on the PCB have been changed etc

i honestly dont see ANY advantage over a DIY cloned PCB with these parts wich would be world of a price difference + additional the origianl transformers....

i do not remember how you tried to specific give me any information about the Neve 1272 as if i remember right you dont know the preamp yourself!?

i know i asked about diferences (m5A,SCA etc etc) but you couldnt tell anythign about it... wieso also Beratungsresitent?....

 

[Biasrocks]

thanks that is very kind and i may get back to you about it but i dont know how much of a change they will make and if they will make the unit sound as it originaly should! i dunno what dozens of other htings that seemed to have been changed would contribute to its original sound qualities

i may as well send them back to API ! i feel certainly cheated here

why should I be responsible for haunting for those parts now, while he told me they are all-origianl beside the Gain mod (wich i wanted)

good that i paid not the full 1k so far but 800,- desposit......still this isnt funny

anyway here some more pics





great my divshare somehow does not show the new uploaded pictures...  no idea whats going on there

madness

anyway earlier in this thread i posted this pic allready wich should show the PCB facts!?

Is this a different BA283 card? Seems like it.

It looks like the tantalum's are there which is a good thing.

I would definitely change out all the electrolytic caps as they look quite tired and oxidized.

As far as gain selection goes, that's easy; don't go beyond 50db and it'll sound like it should.

The type of transistors do make a difference. The small transistors should definitely be BC184 "C"
types and the output transistor should be a Motorola, it's what Neve specified. A date code of 8805
on the RCA indicates that it's not original.

In my opinion, you're paying TOP $$$ and they should be 100%, that would include a complete replacement
of the original electrolytic's and replacement with the original Neve specifed parts.

I'm not trying to cause shit, it's just what I would expect for a top dollar transaction.

Mark

 

[[silent:arts]]

well but what is the whole sense to get an origianl vintage module (with gain mod) if all the parts on the PCB have been changed etc

which parts have been changed?

i honestly dont see ANY advantage over a DIY cloned PCB with these parts wich would be world of a price difference + additional the origianl transformers....

you didn't want to try that route, didn't you. and you wanted to have the "original" sound (whatever this is)

i do not remember how you tried to specific give me any information about the Neve 1272 as if i remember right you dont know the preamp yourself!?

yes, I told you I don't own an original one, only my Baumann clone. and that I'm quite happy with this.

i know i asked about diferences (m5A,SCA etc etc) but you couldnt tell anythign about it... wieso also Beratungsresitent?....

you always ask about comparing the sound, how can it be answered not owning an original / m5A / SCA etc etc) ???

you bought two original units, with mods you knew before.
you didn't listened to it yet, but you are pissed before.
this is what makes me sad.
too much gearslutz.

 

[[silent:arts]]

...
types and the output transistor should be a Motorola, it's what Neve specified ...

Mark,
any link or source to this specification?
thanks
Volker

 

[ion]

Is this a different BA283 card? Seems like it.

It looks like the tantalum's are there which is a good thing.

I would definitely change out all the electrolytic caps as they look quite tired and oxidized.

As far as gain selection goes, that's easy; don't go beyond 50db and it'll sound like it should.

The type of transistors do make a difference. The small transistors should definitely be BC184 "C"
types and the output transistor should be a Motorola, it's what Neve specified. A date code of 8805
on the RCA indicates that it's not original.

In my opinion, you're paying TOP $$$ and they should be 100%, that would include a complete replacement
of the original electrolytic's and replacement with the original Neve specifed parts.

I'm not trying to cause shit, it's just what I would expect for a top dollar transaction.

Mark

-well the caps have allready been replaced by me

-i did not expect a 1073 and more than 50db Gain

-wich are the small transisors?

 

[ion]

if you speak about the 5 small black things with white base they are labled: "BC 184 C"

 

[MartyMart]

Ion, I PM'd you about the 3055's as I have much less than I thought .... sorry !
I need to hang on to my last three.
The Neve sound is in the main circuit/ tants and iron which is all good ..... so relax and don't PANIC !

MM.

 

[ion]

well my PCB has 4 Tants while the original seems to have 8 !!!! those BC 184 C`s i have are there, where on the Picture from Biasrocks are more Tants

so honestly i dont see where its "all good"

+ the wrong RCA

:-[

like Biasrocks noted i paid a nice little load of $ for this

 

[[silent:arts]]

well my PCB has 4 Tants while the original seems to have 8 !!!! those BC 184 C`s i have are there, where on the Picture from Biasrocks are more Tants

you mean the seller exchanged the tants to transistors 

 

[ion]

very funny V. happy to amuse you

i can only tell what i see based on my little knowledge

and this forum is beyong confusion








also i dont want to bash API he seems to be a kind and helpfull dude... but i cant contact him as he isnt available at the moment...
also i thought that i did get a very good price and now it seems its rather the top end price for 2 of these...
+ non original parts anymore...

stuff just sumarizes together...