So yeah, the PC people have won once again..

[ComodoComplex]

Exactly when did I mention Muslim immigrants to Europe? I was talking about the rise of Islam as an ideology, not as a people or race.

"You like Beethoven, Beethoven was German, Germans hated Jews, therfore you hate jews, and so you are a racist"

And BTW a similar argument about Beethoven has already been made by the left, as absurd as it sounds https://www.classicfm.com/composers/beethoven/composer-cancelled-fifth-symphony-elitist-vox-debate/

Your own article refutes your point. LOL. Read it

 

[ComodoComplex]

Exactly when did I mention Muslim immigrants to Europe? I was talking about the rise of Islam as an ideology, not as a people or race.Why can't I disagree with the ideology of Islam.

Ok, to make things easier, I am not against muslims, I am against what the Quran and the Hadith preaches, those are books and ideologies. Is that better?

I did mention that you are afraid of the global rise of Islam. And why would we have anything to fear if muslims were not also growing in "western civilization"? Please if you are not worried about Muslim immigrants and you're happy to have them, then please do say so. I'm sure it would be helpful here.

You can disagree with "the ideology of Islam" i guess, but it doesn't go unnoticed when you don't hold the same standard to the other Abrahamic texts that inform Christianity and Judaism. There is nothing more inherently violent about Islam. See the Reza Aslan clip from before, which I doubt you watched.

 

[user 37518]

Your own article refutes your point. LOL. Read it

The article shows both points of the argument, the left argues something, others something else, the fact is that even something as vanal as Beethoven 5th is now becoming an issue.

 

[ComodoComplex]

The article shows both points of the argument, the left argues something, others something else, the fact is that even something as vanal as Beethoven 5th is now becoming an issue.

It seems like you just take issue with reconsidering cultural artifacts? Why shouldn't we look at our understanding of history and analyze how it was constructed and whose narratives it serves or served?

 

[ComodoComplex]

The article shows both points of the argument, the left argues something, others something else, the fact is that even something as vanal as Beethoven 5th is now becoming an issue.

"I'm pro freedom of speech!" but also "People shouldn't critique Beethoven and history!"

 

[user 37518]

I did mention that you are afraid of the global rise of Islam. And why would we have anything to fear if muslims were not also growing in "western civilization"? Please if you are not worried about Muslim immigrants and you're happy to have them, then please do say so. I'm sure it would be helpful here.

You can disagree with "the ideology of Islam" i guess, but it doesn't go unnoticed when you don't hold the same standard to the other Abrahamic texts that inform Christianity and Judaism. There is nothing more inherently violent about Islam. See the Reza Aslan clip from before, which I doubt you watched.

Unlike Islam, the Christians do not have anything that resembles "Sharia Law" which is described in the Hadith. The Christian bible, specially the old testament has some violent passages, the difference is Islam is stuck in the 7th century, whilst christianity is not. Christ was a beloved figure, Muhhamad was a warlord, he basically took mecca by force with an army of 10,000, so no, Islam is very different from Christianity even from the start.

Christianity does not preach "kill all who are not Christians or do not convert to Christianity"

 

[user 37518]

"I'm pro freedom of speech!" but also "People shouldn't critique Beethoven and history!"

Im not saying they shouldn't  critique it, I am saying it is absurd. Adding a disclaimer to old movies just because they didn't held todays values is ridiculous.

I am just waiting for the Woke movement to demand that the US constitution be abolished because Jefferson and Washington used to own slaves...

 

[ComodoComplex]

Unlike Islam, the Christians do not have anything that resembles "Sharia Law" which is described in the Hadith. The Christian bible, specially the old testament has some violent passages, the difference is Islam is stuck in the 7th century, whilst christianity is not. Christ was a beloved figure, Muhhamad was a warlord, he basically took mecca by force with an army of 10,000, so no, Islam is very different from Christianity even from the start.

Were the crusades not Christian? How many people died during that?

Again, if you watch the clip with Reza Azlan, he explains beautifully how it would make more sense to critique social issues with the countries you refer to as "muslim countries", but it makes no sense to talk about "muslim countries" as one monolithic ideological bloc.

 

[user 37518]

Were the crusades not Christian? How many people died during that?

Again, if you watch the clip with Reza Azlan, he explains beautifully how it would make more sense to critique social issues with the countries you refer to as "muslim countries", but it makes no sense to talk about "muslim countries" as one monolithic ideological bloc.

Yes the crusades, thats how far back into history the left has to go to prove their point, again, Christianity is not stuck in the middle ages, Islam is.

 

[ComodoComplex]

Im not saying they shouldn't  critique it, I am saying it is absurd. Adding a disclaimer to old movies just because they didn't held todays values is ridiculous.

I am just waiting for the Woke movement to demand that the US constitution be abolished because Jefferson and Washington used to own slaves...

So you think it's absurd, and you should get to define what is or isn't absurd? You're applying the same logic that you used with your strawman of "the left"

And yeah the constitution should be abolished or amended because it disenfranchises thousands of people. The fact that they were slave owners lends context to their ideology at the time of crafting the document, but we are living here and now. Can't we base our actions on rational analysis of cause and effect rather than on arbitrary deference to a 200 year old document?

 

[user 37518]

So you think it's absurd, and you should get to define what is or isn't absurd? You're applying the same logic that you used with your strawman of "the left"

And yeah the constitution should be abolished or amended because it disenfranchises thousands of people. The fact that they were slave owners lends context to their ideology at the time of crafting the document, but we are living here and now. Can't we base our actions on rational analysis of cause and effect rather than on arbitrary deference to a 200 year old document?

I think its absurd, not that it should be cancelled, you just said the constitution should be abolished, that just proves my point, I'll agree to be a far-right post boy, but you will have to agree that you are a far-left post boy aswell..... I think we are not going to reach any middle ground with our discussions arent we?

 

[ComodoComplex]

Yes the crusades, thats how far back into history the left has to go to prove their point, again, Christianity is not stuck in the middle ages, Islam is.

LOL Ok fine. You have buddhists in myanmar who go around murdering muslims, but buddhism is supposed to be peaceful right? The KKK is a Christian organization, and they're certainly not peaceful right?

 

[ComodoComplex]

I think its absurd, not that it should be cancelled, you just said the constitution should be abolished, that just proves my point, I'll agree to be a far-right post boy, but you will have to agree that you are a far-left post boy aswell..... I think we are not going to reach any middle ground with our discussions arent we?

So the fact that I think the constitution should be rewritten to enfranchise more Americans "proves your point" about what exactly? Yeah... I have an ideology. So what? At least I own it. You pretend to be completely reasonable and neutral and yet your ideology of exclusion REEKS in every single sentence you write. I don't think you've even once considered thinking critically about the history you were taught in grade school

 

[user 37518]

So the fact that I think the constitution should be rewritten to enfranchise more Americans "proves your point" about what exactly? Yeah... I have an ideology. So what? At least I own it. You pretend to be completely reasonable and neutral and yet your ideology of exclusion REEKS in every single sentence you write. I don't think you've even once considered thinking critically about the history you were taught in grade school

It proves my point that the left is looking back at history and they are outraged that 300 years ago people didn't have the same values and way of thinking of today, and they seek to cancel anything, from movies, music, books, etc...

I do have an ideology, I do own it, If you want I can describe to you my ideology, what I am not is what you call a "White supremacist"

Again, I will agree to be called a far-rigth poster boy if you agree you are a far-left poster boy

 

[ComodoComplex]

Yes the crusades, thats how far back into history the left has to go to prove their point, again, Christianity is not stuck in the middle ages, Islam is.

I love how you fail to address the point about muslim countries too  ;D

Islam is not "stuck in the 7th Century". How do you explain Turkey, a majority muslim country which is also extremely secular?

 

[ComodoComplex]

It proves my point that the left is looking back at history and they are outraged that 300 years ago people didn't have the same values and way of thinking of today, and they seek to cancel anything, from movies, music, books, etc...

I do have an ideology, I do own it, If you want I can describe to you my ideology, what I am not is what you call a "White supremacist"

Again, I will agree to be called a far-rigth poster boy if you agree you are a far-left poster boy

Who is outraged at what happened 300 years ago? I think we're probably just *critical* about the ways those things are represented, adulated, incorporated into culture, TODAY. Not 300 years ago

 

[user 37518]

I love how you fail to address the point about muslim countries too  ;D

Islam is not "stuck in the 7th Century". How do you explain Turkey, a majority muslim country which is also extremely secular?

Man, my cousin used to live in Turkey, and while walking along with her boyfriend through the streets people spat on her because they though she was Turkish and she was dating a German, so don't give me Turkey as a good example.

 

[ComodoComplex]

Man, my cousin used to live in Turkey, and while walking along with his boyfriends thorugh the streets people spat on her because they though she was Turkish and she was dating a German, so don't give me Turkey as a good example.

That sucks! Good thing I don't advocate for that kind of behavior or make excuses for it. Would you take the experience of your cousin and apply it wholesale to a global religion of 1.8 billion people?

 

[user 37518]

That sucks! Good thing I don't advocate for that kind of behavior or make excuses for it. Would you take the experience of your cousin and apply it wholesale to a global religion of 1.8 billion people?

No but I would argue that Turkey even if its a non fundamental muslim country, its far from being tolerant or anything like the west, because after all it is still a muslim country.

 

[user 37518]

Again, I don't think we are going to reach a consensus here, I'll be back tomorrow if you want, I rather enjoy what's left of my weekend.