SSL 9000J channel strip racking

[Whoops]

You really believe the price of the modules are going to drop?

Honestly I can't predict the future in terms of price evolution for single SSL channel strip modules.

Check what Kags worte, he is 100% correct in what he explained.

What I can predict for sure is that a lot of SSL channel strips from (E, G and J series) will be available for sale in the future, after those consoles are parted away and sold for parts. Well, This is already happening...
You can expect a constant presence of those modules available for sale all the time in Reverb, Ebay, and audio gear brokers.

So supply will be plenty, then Price going up or down will only depend on the Demand.
SSL console channel strips are not easy to Rack, actually are very hard, they are also expensive to rack, so it's not a work for the average Joe., so that will be a deterrent for some possible buyers.
Then these modules are not Rare, it's not like the original Helios or even Neve 1073 (1084 and the likes) which were produced in lesser quantities, in the case of the SSL modules many consoles where produced and sold.

So my feeling is that if you like them and find them useful, I really think you will be able to pick up a "bunch" for yourself. Just remember that racking them will be very expensive if done by a third party and a lot of work if done by yourself. And yes you have to CUT the PCB's.

 

[dan_vennacava]

Just speaking about SSLs, there are hundreds of studios with E, G, and J consoles that are in rapid freefall. An 80-input SSL J can be bought for under $50K, which is about 5% of its original price, and much less than $1k per channel strip. Parts are hard to come by, especially switches and specialty pots, so repairs are becoming difficult, especially for the J series. The G parts are easier to source, at least for now. The new SSL products, like the Big Six and 500 series modules are excellent-sounding products, although different/limited features as compared to full console channel strips.

There is definitely something cohesive about tracking an entire song's worth of instruments and vocals through the same console, but today most records aren't made like that. I think we will go back to the age of "recording consoles" with great pres and EQs and most mixes will take place in the box. There will always be purists (luddites?) who prefer a specific workflow, but for commercial music production, times have moved on...

Just today - Reverb has a listing for 24 channels from a 9000J for under 700 bucks each. A year ago these were over $1k...

the J series was a million dollar console when it was released??? Kags where is your studio, you guys have 3 J's??? :O ill be honest, ive never done a recall on 80 input console so im sure in terms of time/money it doesnt make sense to continue this way as a business and i get that . i feel like the people who buy these consoles in the future will be the same as people who buy vintage cars, they"ve always dreamt of owning one and even if its not practical in the modern day they will still do it, idk just my opinion lol You're saying the pots and switches tend to fail, do you know if the aux pots are the same as the eq and comp section? cause ill have a few lower pcbs with spare aux pots in that case!

cheers

 

[dan_vennacava]

Honestly I can't predict the future in terms of price evolution for single SSL channel strip modules.

Check what Kags worte, he is 100% correct in what he explained.

What I can predict for sure is that a lot of SSL channel strips from (E, G and J series) will be available for sale in the future, after those consoles are parted away and sold for parts. Well, This is already happening...
You can expect a constant presence of those modules available for sale all the time in Reverb, Ebay, and audio gear brokers.

So supply will be plenty, then Price going up or down will only depend on the Demand.
SSL console channel strips are not easy to Rack, actually are very hard, they are also expensive to rack, so it's not a work for the average Joe., so that will be a deterrent for some possible buyers.
Then these modules are not Rare, it's not like the original Helios or even Neve 1073 (1084 and the likes) which were produced in lesser quantities, in the case of the SSL modules there's a lot of them all over the World.
Imagine if Kags consoles were decommissioned one day, those would be 256 channel strips in total available from just from 1 studio complex.

So my feeling is that if you like them and find them useful, I really think you will be able to pick up a "bunch" for yourself. Just remember that racking them will be very expensive if done by a third party and a lot of work if done by yourself. And yes you have to CUT the PCB's.

You definitely have a good point about the supply and demand fluctuating the price of a channel! Im depending on how smooth my project with 4 go i will definitely be on the look out for channels at a good price. Out of all the SSL series is there one that is easier than the other to rack, just wondering! also i hope kags doesnt decommission their consoles , how bad ass is that to have 3 9000j's.... For the 4 that im going to be racking im considering not cutting the pcb and racking these vertical , i think it will be pretty cool and ill eventually fill out the empty spaces with more J's, i think id need around 12 J's standing vertical to fill the 19" space. I would cut the face plate at the same place as keith in this pic below and stand em vertical , i also want to keep the ket siwtches for the busses to retain the look of the channel even they are pointless have XD all this being said maybe one day ill try cutting a strip and if it goes smooth ill do the rest but for now im definitely cool with having em vertical

cheers!

 

[kags]

the J series was a million dollar console when it was released??? Kags where is your studio, you guys have 3 J's??? :O ill be honest, ive never done a recall on 80 input console so im sure in terms of time/money it doesnt make sense to continue this way as a business and i get that . i feel like the people who buy these consoles in the future will be the same as people who buy vintage cars, they"ve always dreamt of owning one and even if its not practical in the modern day they will still do it, idk just my opinion lol You're saying the pots and switches tend to fail, do you know if the aux pots are the same as the eq and comp section? cause ill have a few lower pcbs with spare aux pots in that case!

cheers

We have 2 9000J (96 ch and 80 ch) and one 4000G+ (80ch qAir edition). The solo, cut, and Automation buttons are very difficult to source, as are some routing buttons for SSLs. Many pots are identical on the console but for the most part the pots on the boards (except for the center section) stay working and can be refreshed as needed.

Aux and EQ are different pots- Aux are pushbutton + pot.

The Hellerman wrap that melts on the back of the switches causes the LEDs to stop working and that is a PIA, but mostly serviceable.

You’re right that collectors will want these and there will likely be a circle of people to trade and source parts from each other.

I now see channels going for under $500 each…

 

[dan_vennacava]

wow thats amazing , if ever you guys want to sell some modules in the future let me know (; actually going to have the solo/cut/automation buttons from the lower pcb"s , i was planning on trying to sell the lower pcbs once these are racked up if ever you guys would be interested in spare parts! i was actually told that the LED"s from these strips draw massive amounts of power, to the point where Joe at JLM told me if for X reason all the led"s on 2 channels are simultaneously on it can trigger the fuse on the PSU, he did mention that there would never really be a reason for all the LED"s tho be lite up at the same time! they must get hot!!! did you guys buy your consoles new when they came out or you acquired them down the line?

cheers

 

[kags]

Hey Dan - we might very well be interested in the lower cards or switches when you’re ready. We bought the Js new around 2000 and the G+ has a storied past but we were not the original owner. Feel free to PM me about the parts. Thanks!

Adam

 

[dan_vennacava]

Sounds good ill send you a PM!
Very cool man, it must’ve been a crazy experience getting these things new!

Cheers

 

[dan_vennacava]

Hey kags, not sure how to send a pm on this site , i found your email on your website, sent you an email there! Cheers

 

[sodderboy]

And don't forget, a 9072j pulls 9.6kWh/h, times TWO because you need AC in two locations to keep it all from burning-up. PSU bricks, no parts, a lot of negatives about maintaining them but they are in demand by those who know how to use them. One of my patients has OPA's and LT's with a 30-year self-destruct program such that I am going to try glue-on mini heat sinks on the IC's with brown PCB under them. They are about $5, much less than the IC replacement cost. 20 of them go over a three month period, after maybe one per year for 20 years? Temp has been stable throughout.

Some people are scavenging their desks, killing a bucket for spares for the rest of the console. I don't think they sold them under 56 frames. Or some make a mini 24 channel desk sans computer. THAT was a fantastic design to have the console function properly with the computer off.
Modules for $500? Noice!
Mike

 

[kags]

And don't forget, a 9072j pulls 9.6kWh/h, times TWO because you need AC in two locations to keep it all from burning-up. PSU bricks, no parts, a lot of negatives about maintaining them but they are in demand by those who know how to use them. One of my patients has OPA's and LT's with a 30-year self-destruct program such that I am going to try glue-on mini heat sinks on the IC's with brown PCB under them. They are about $5, much less than the IC replacement cost. 20 of them go over a three month period, after maybe one per year for 20 years? Temp has been stable throughout.

Some people are scavenging their desks, killing a bucket for spares for the rest of the console. I don't think they sold them under 56 frames. Or some make a mini 24 channel desk sans computer. THAT was a fantastic design to have the console function properly with the computer off.
Modules for $500? Noice!
Mike

Our output drivers on one console have been burning up, but I think it was a bad prod run since the other console has no probs. I’m socketing the chips anyway to try to keep the board from getting more heat damage. I also remove all the Hellerman every time I pull a channel.

We only have 48 channels of each board powered on and have been toying with the idea of getting a Tangerine to turn a few buckets into DAW control.

Eventually we will scavenge parts from our own unused channels and maybe cut the wings off the boards. We have Atomic supplies, which lowered the power and AC costs a bit.

 

[meatlog]

What is the depth measurement of the 9K PCB behind the faceplate going back to the upper edge connector?

 

[dan_vennacava]

What is the depth measurement of the 9K PCB behind the faceplate going back to the upper edge connector?

I’ll get that measurement for you tomorrow when i go back to the studio!

 

[kags]

What is the depth measurement of the 9K PCB behind the faceplate going back to the upper edge connector?

It’s 11” from the front of the faceplate to the rear edge of the PCB in the upper section. The PCB butts against the faceplate, which is only anout 2mm thick. The faceplate looks 1/4” thick because it has folded edges for rigidity.

 

[meatlog]

Thanks!! It looked much bigger in the pictures. I am currently racking up a small pile of 4000 channels, and these 9Ks seem to be much more straightforward to deal with as far as getting the boards into a 19" space.

 

[kags]

Do you have any details on how you racked the 4000 strips? Did you cut them down? I have a few spare G+ strips laying around, that could possibly be racked.

 

[meatlog]

If you want it to fit into 19", you'll have to cut and preserve the corner of the PCB containing the upper edge connector, mic RF filter and channel amplifer socket, and then cut away the area of the cue pots, vca/group cards, and lower edge connector, and then join the two remaining pieces (dyn/eq and amp) together in some way (I've bolted them together with strips of extra PCB material.) Then you must wire the amp's edge connector and the power rails to the dynamics and EQ section. using a ribbon cable. Some trace cuts and flying wires in the area of the preamp mode switches are necessary, and may differ depending on which amp card you have fitted. You'll also have to attach a balanced line driver circuit for the output. I've just successfully cut up and mechanically joined some boards that I'll be wiring up later this month. I'll be sure to document what must be done.

 

[kags]

If you want it to fit into 19", you'll have to cut and preserve the corner of the PCB containing the upper edge connector, mic RF filter and channel amplifer socket, and then cut away the area of the cue pots, vca/group cards, and lower edge connector, and then join the two remaining pieces (dyn/eq and amp) together in some way (I've bolted them together with strips of extra PCB material.) Then you must wire the amp's edge connector and the power rails to the dynamics and EQ section. using a ribbon cable. Some trace cuts and flying wires in the area of the preamp mode switches are necessary, and may differ depending on which amp card you have fitted. You'll also have to attach a balanced line driver circuit for the output. I've just successfully cut up and mechanically joined some boards that I'll be wiring up later this month. I'll be sure to document what must be done.

That would great! If you need any parts or documentation, let me know. I prob have it.

 

[aurt]

If you want it to fit into 19", you'll have to cut and preserve the corner of the PCB containing the upper edge connector, mic RF filter and channel amplifer socket, and then cut away the area of the cue pots, vca/group cards, and lower edge connector, and then join the two remaining pieces (dyn/eq and amp) together in some way (I've bolted them together with strips of extra PCB material.) Then you must wire the amp's edge connector and the power rails to the dynamics and EQ section. using a ribbon cable. Some trace cuts and flying wires in the area of the preamp mode switches are necessary, and may differ depending on which amp card you have fitted. You'll also have to attach a balanced line driver circuit for the output. I've just successfully cut up and mechanically joined some boards that I'll be wiring up later this month. I'll be sure to document what must be done.

Very important: The 13V rail is really a -7V rail hung off the 20V. (Actually 11V, 7V off of 18V, but I digress.) If you just stick a 13(11)V from ground, things will act very funny. There are also a couple of grounds that need to be tied together, lest you get strange behavior. I have to alligator clip them when I use my janky test jig.

Also, the Group Amps card has the necessary line driver, as long as you're putting displaced cards back in.

I had a pair someone bought on Ebay come through the shop, and boy, were they a mess. I had to do a bunch of rewiring, and hang the logic supply right. It was an expensive repair. They were happy at the end, though. I think I put a fader pot in place of the group pan, because the way it was cut, I could.

 

[kags]

So you can use the group/direct out as a balanced output if you keep the group amp card intact? I know about the 11V rail.

The insert send is unbalanced 0dBu, if I remember.

 

[aurt]

You're right - I also wonder why anybody would really want an SSL mic preamp at all! We have three SSL consoles (96 ch 9000J, 80 ch 9000J and 80 ch 4000G+) at the studio, and in the last five years, I've only seen 1 engineer use the onboard mic preamps. Our outboard preamps are in constant use, but never the onboard pres, except as utility preamps, like for the cues.

We do have several 9000J channel strips that are in various states of repair that I consider racking just to have a couple of "floaters in the studio. Some people need to have the SSL badge around to feel legit.

I've certainly used SSL pres in earnest, but while perfectly serviceable, they aren't my favorite. When doing something live on air, though, it pays to have everything in front of you. I certainly used them on a 4k for a bunch of stuff when I only had so many nice bits of outboard available, back in the 90s. I used a J quite a bit in the early 2000s, and honestly had no issue with the pres unless it was that they might be too clean. I quite liked that desk, aside from having to install it with a broken rib.

Now, there's plenty of even mid level stuff that's more fun. But still, if you can't make a record with the SSL pres, it's not the pres fault.