Studer A800 or 827 wanted

[erjos]

Yeah, sonoma is the discontinued Sony Dsd DaW, and the edit points like crosfades or processing is rendered in pcm in a hard drive folder. Clever but i dont call it editable dsd. At 70k usd i cant think of it like a solution, vs 5-6K for a 2" tape
Thanks for your input guys. Im leaning more toward the A800 but still searching....

 

[r2d2]

.....  8)
http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120893354505&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:IT:1123#ht_4015wt_1177


peace
r2d2

 

[erjos]

Thanks phantomas. For me your name is a way to travel back in times i was a kid, watching some Lui De Fine films, if you know whay im talking 
Today i see a A827 listed in ebay for around 10000 usd located in germany. Price is too high but in the "bundle" are included 20 pcs of one pass 499  and 456 ampex 2" reels and a Studer TLS 4000 sync unit. Its fitted with Dolby A too. 8600 hours on it.
All this new information is overloading my CThU ( central thinking unit)... This normally happens when you never have touched or worked with a device before, and try to learn from the experience of others.
What you think guys? Is this "bundle" worth the money?

R2D2
Thats the machine i was talking but its kinda doubtful since the seller has not listed any full photo of the machine. Only in one photo from the top i can see some missing stuff in the front of it...
Peace

 

[pucho812]

does not hurt if you ask for more photos

 

[Greg Norman]

If you wanted to get something that you won't have to spend too much time working on (under the hood that is) I would lean towards 820/827 over the 800. 
I would recommend getting an A820 however.  The transport on this machine is identical to the 827, but the audio is significantly better designed (compare the output amplifiers for one example).  There is the added convenience of the computer aided alignment which not only makes calibrating the machine a 5 minute breeze, it also shows you if something fails.  The peak meters are easy to use and handy for drums.  The only downside is you may have to recap the thing if it's been in heavy use.

 

[erjos]

Thanks guys
I can have the A800 for 3200$  and the A827 for 9800$. Both more or less in good condition.
What do you think? Is the automatic calibration really working?
Cheers

 

[Greg Norman]

Thanks guys
I can have the A800 for 3200$  and the A827 for 9800$. Both more or less in good condition.
What do you think? Is the automatic calibration really working?
Cheers

$3200 for a working machine is not bad, but for a machine that needs work, bad.  The choice depends on what your needs are.  If you want to hit the ground running, and not deal with too many technical issues, the 827 is a better investment.  If you are super sensitive about which of the two sound better, and can deal with tech problems, the 800 might be good.  However, expect downtime and thousands of dollars on parts/repairs.
Neither of these machines have an auto calibration feature  That's unique to the 820.  The 827's adjustments are mostly software driven, which means you can stand upright using buttons to calibrate, as opposed to getting on your knees with a screwdriver with the 800. 

 

[pucho812]

yes but with the 827, you can save your alignments, a feature that I found useless as the alignments would drift over time.

 

[Greg Norman]

yes but with the 827, you can save your alignments, a feature that I found useless as the alignments would drift over time.

Yeah,
I think I've used that feature once just to see how it worked. 
The gain values in 820/827s are pretty stable however.  On the 820s, I see more irregularities between tape batches of the same formulation than machine electronics drifting.  You can do a test for this by calibrating the machine for a specific reel of tape on the "Tape B" setting, then conduct months of sessions on "Tape A" (with various configurations).  If you then return to that first reel (switch back to Tape B), and check the tones, and test record new tones, it should still be pretty much perfect.  This is assuming you're regularly cleaning, demagnetizing and checking azimuth.  This is more interesting than useful though.  Since it's so easy to calibrate this thing, we just do it before the start of a session (new or returning).

 

[erjos]

Very enlightening
Thanks Greg.
I think that 6000$ diference for some maintenance and a screw driver are not worth. Im not afraid of maintenance. Not that im a geek, but cmon we are on diy, and pasionate as ever. Im spending a hell of time reading, learning experimenting in my A80 1/4 " machine. All this is getting frustating at times, but im equiped with a strong nerve and natural patience.
I have arranged the shipping of the A800 to my country. But still open with other posibilities. The owner says he will not regret if he doesnt sell it at all.
If some of you diyers think that maintenance of a A800 is so hellish, than i have a good reason to be scared.
Thanks for your support
Cheers
Erjon

 

[pucho812]

greg,

it's like this, new session starts, do the usual, clean heads, do an alignment, print tones, etc, etc. You know usual stuff.  Session is going on for weeks.  A few days after the original set up check tones and the 827 machine alignment has already drifted in a matter of a few days. easy to get back to sure but drifted none the less.

 

[Greg Norman]

greg,

it's like this, new session starts, do the usual, clean heads, do an alignment, print tones, etc, etc. You know usual stuff.  Session is going on for weeks.  A few days after the original set up check tones and the 827 machine alignment has already drifted in a matter of a few days. easy to get back to sure but drifted none the less.

Huh...
That doesn't happen with our 820s. 

 

[0dbfs]

I've seen nice quality machines drift after a day. It's best to check them and tweak any discrepancies every day. Have a system to patch around any hard patched devices and get tone to all inputs. Mute monitors and headphones. And any remap setups that may be fed off a bus or output used by the oscillator.

Tracking setups that spill into overdub can be somewhat complex with various devices connected to tape sends and returns so you may not really want to unhook all that to re-cal the machine. Especially if everything is cool and sounding good.

Use 4k as well as a couple other higher frequencies. You can get the machine pretty flat. Two tracks drift more than 2".

If you check at the end of the week and you're off a db or more at certain frequencies then re-cal, you're changing a bunch of work you did all week. Right?

I agree. Machines drift and you may want to re-cal but sometimes it's better to not mess with it in the middle of certain sessions. Now, if you suspect significant changes there may be reason to investigate further.

/daws also have eq to be used in corrective applications which may not be the end of the world either.

-jb

 

[Greg Norman]

I've seen nice quality machines drift after a day. It's best to check them and tweak any discrepancies every day. Have a system to patch around any hard patched devices and get tone to all inputs.

Another handy feature of the A820s and 827s is the internal tone generator.  Anytime you're curious you just hit record and run through the tones to see if anything's off. 

 

[andre tchmil]

No studer , but I have a Telefunken M15 in a trlley with a box full of spare PCB's and a head block that I want to exchange for something else.
Machine needs a complete overhaul .

 

[SSLtech]

Another handy feature of the A820s and 827s is the internal tone generator.  Anytime you're curious you just hit record and run through the tones to see if anything's off.

I don't believe that any of our 827's have this... so either I've missed something, or this is not a standard feature.

 

[pucho812]

keef I believe he is referring the optional tone generator card that was well, an option with the 827's.  Those cards are nice as they do offer tone. But always better to align the multi track with the console.

Greg your 820's might not drift but every 827 I have ever used drifts in the manor I spoke of earlier.

 

[erjos]

Well, heard a lot about machines losing calibration, but really guys, what is the main technical reason behind that? Mechanical parts moving or pots losing position or heat changing the resistor values or what? Is this inevitable with some precautions?

 

[SSLtech]

Pucho, we have several A827's here, and another client has FIVE of them. My last studio also had three, and none of them drift in the manner that you mentioned.

Clean path, keep an eye on stock condition and it's good to go.

Calibration is checked at least twice a day on pro sessions, heads cleaned and inspected at least every break. DO NOT clean capstan with wet-alcohol-soaked anything. Standard path-cleaning procedure.