Takstar CM-60 + 3U hyper

[bfbiii]

I see that the Takstar CM-60 is a favorite body for the mm5 3U Audio capsule. I am wondering about the noise with this combo, and of course the general performance.
Context: I am specifically looking for a budget supercardiod SDC for filmmaking. A true super seems hard to come by for a low price, so the 3U Audio hyper appears to be a good fit for the budget. I already have the Oktava MK-012 hyper, and I like it, but it's right on the edge of quiet enough I'd say. Perhaps more importantly I need to order a decent number of these for a school film class--i.e., acquiring several Oktava's could get pricey.

 

[mrgrooves666]

Please correct me If I'm wrong, but as far as I knew, I thought takstar as is, has electret capsule, its board is not capable of supplying polarizing voltage, and 3U's are externally powered capsules no? Unless you use another PCB capable of supplying polarization voltage of course.

 

[kingkorg]

Please correct me If I'm wrong, but as far as I knew, I thought takstar as is, has electret capsule, its board is not capable of supplying polarizing voltage, and 3U's are externally powered capsules no? Unless you use another PCB capable of supplying polarization voltage of course.

Nope, CM60 has pol voltage, full Schoeps style circuit.

 

[bfbiii]

Well, that's good
I'm thinking it's just about the cheapest idea I can come up with that might do the trick and sound decent.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

The real question is whether the vents on the CM-60 will cause issues. I don't know how well sealed the 3U DIY SDC caps are.

I will say if you feel like the MK-012 is just on the edge of being quiet enough, you might not be satisfied with the CM-60 with the 3U capsule.

Now, if you need to get many on the cheap, why not just use some good cheap cardioids? No it's not ideal, but a supercardioid in an untreated room isn't exactly ideal either.

 

[bfbiii]

At first I was trying to find a donor body for the 3U capsules that was not vented. But when I read on their site that they designed their cardioid capsule with the vents in mind and their diagrams had vented bodies, I thought perhaps they had accounted for the vents in each case.
http://www.3uaudio.com/cp.asp?id=700
My gut did tell me it was a long shot noise-wise. But worst case I have an interesting mic--I'm only ordering one body and cap at first.
I teach the students in the class how to treat first reflections for shots on the go, so there is always at least some awareness and care in that regard. We also explore choosing a good location to begin with and using our ears.

I'm not against using a cardioid in a pinch or in certain situations--I have a Line Audio CM4 which I find every excuse for using. A big part of this is teaching some of the standards, and when possible using tools somewhat analogous. So in this case as I'm sure everyone here knows we are talking supers MKH-50/8050, Schoeps MK41 cap, etc. But there are no rules (I know some famous uses of cardioids on the boom) just helpful stuff to know.

If Line Audio ever made a supercardioid, well I think that would be a fantastic day.

I will report back on the mics that made the cut if that interests folks.

 

[bfbiii]

My initial uses: Takstar CM-60 + 3U Audio hyper has a really pleasing sound for dialogue on a boom. Self-noise does make it an impractical choice. Maybe there is a "best" body to use with this cap or maybe some modifications to the CM-60 circuitry would remedy? Regardless I definitely like the sound.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

My initial uses: Takstar CM-60 + 3U Audio hyper has a really pleasing sound for dialogue on a boom. Self-noise does make it an impractical choice. Maybe there is a "best" body to use with this cap or maybe some modifications to the CM-60 circuitry would remedy? Regardless I definitely like the sound.

Any microphone with the same body, threading, and contact pin length would be fine. You're probably not gonna find something significantly better unless you build it yourself or mod the mics because this body style is usually used for cheap mics (or "premium" mics that are just rebranded cheap Chinese mics). I'd say the lowest to expect is 17 or 18 dBA without modding or building your own circuit. If the capsule is $129 US, and a donor mic is gonna also be $60-100, at that point I'd rather grab MK-012s myself, or try to score cheap used AT4053Bs or Audix SCX1-HCs.

 

[bfbiii]

I get that. I like the sound of this capsule enough to overinvest in time/money on improving it some if possible. I feel like I'm more in the 20 bB(A) range, but I'd have to use it some more and at least do some crude comparisons.

I have 1 MK-012 +hyper from the 2010s I know really well, but I also have a post-2020 MK-012 preamp + hyper and an Oktava "UP-012 universal preamp" that I've yet to test. So far I prefer the sound of the Takstar CM-60 + 3U hyper over my 2010s MK-012--but not the noise, of course.

I would not be upset about scoring a deal on an AT4053b For some reason the Audix has never captured my imagination; might just have to hear the right recording to get hooked.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

I get that. I like the sound of this capsule enough to overinvest in time/money on improving it some if possible. I feel like I'm more in the 20 bB(A) range, but I'd have to use it some more and at least do some crude comparisons.

I have 1 MK-012 +hyper from the 2010s I know really well, but I also have a post-2020 MK-012 preamp + hyper and an Oktava "UP-012 universal preamp" that I've yet to test. So far I prefer the sound of the Takstar CM-60 + 3U hyper over my 2010s MK-012--but not the noise, of course.

I would not be upset about scoring a deal on an AT4053b For some reason the Audix has never captured my imagination; might just have to hear the right recording to get hooked.

I actually hate the Audix myself. Sure it sounds "like a Schoeps" but it sounds like an MK41 that's been put behind a pillow. The Oktava is pretty midrangey but I don't find it has that boxy muffled sound I've heard from the Audix.

I definitely think the 3U capsules don't sound bad. I briefly had some CM100s with the hypercardioid capsules. I liked them enough but the build quality wasn't great.

You might be able to find an MXL 604 which has an advertised 18 dBA self noise. This would put it, if it's actually to advertised specs, on par with the MK-012 which also advertises 18 dbA noise and 10mV/Pa sensitivity. I'm not sure which length of contact pin it works with.

 

[bfbiii]

I went looking in my collection and I have an Avantone CK-1 which claims 17 dBA and a Gauge ECM-84 which claims 18 dBA... But they both use the longer contact pin. Dang it! Pretty sure the only 22mm with the short pin I have is this Takstar. Do you happen to know if that MXL 604 uses the shorter pin?

 

[bfbiii]

Ah, 604 is the longer pin for sure. Hmmm.

 

[Paul W]

Somewhat OT, but does anyone know about the Takstar CM-63 vs the CM-60? It's about $10 more and I'm wondering if it's actually better, and if it has the same threads, etc. that accept 3U capsules.

They advertise the CM-63 as having the same up-to-20db noise, but 3db better sensitivity. I'm wondering if that's real, and if so, whether it's due to a better circuit.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Somewhat OT, but does anyone know about the Takstar CM-63 vs the CM-60? It's about $10 more and I'm wondering if it's actually better, and if it has the same threads, etc. that accept 3U capsules.

They advertise the CM-63 as having the same up-to-20db noise, but 3db better sensitivity. I'm wondering if that's real, and if so, whether it's due to a better circuit.

The 63 also has a low cut and pad.

 

[bfbiii]

I came across this link when I was looking at the Takstar + 3U combo
https://shorturl.at/ghQY7

 

[bfbiii]

It turns out you can get the .5mm 3U Audio capsule (the capsule with the shorter contact pin) to make contact with the Avantone CK-1 and Gauge ECM-84 bodies even though they use capsules with longer pins. Takstar + 3U combo is far better, however (IMO).

 

[Paul W]

I came across this link when I was looking at the Takstar + 3U combo
https://shorturl.at/ghQY7

Interesting, thanks.

Seems that Stephanie thinks the capsules in the CM-60 and CM-63 are internally identical, but the published frequency response plots are not. I don't understand these things well enough to know whether that means the capsules aren't functionally identical, or if it's the different venting (same number but 2x wider vents on the 63), or what. (And I know not to trust manufacturers' published FR plots anyhow.)

She also says the pin stickout on the 63 is 1 mm. Is that close enough to 0.5mm that the 0.5mm pin 3U capsules should fit?

Attached are the specs and plots from the manuals for both mics. I'm curious what more-expert people would make of them. The FR for the 63 is funnier-looking to me than the one for the 60, with a broad dip around 5k and a peakier high peak several K above that. (Is it normal for cardioid SDC's to have two peaks?)

The polar plot for the CM-63 looks at first glance to have a less deep null at 180, but they're not plotted identically or labeled with dB numbers, so who knows? It also shows the polar response for a variety of frequencies (only 1K being shown for the CM-60) and they look surprisingly consistent to me.

Without understanding these things it's not clear to me which to buy. The CM-60 seems like a safe bet because everyone says it's a great deal, and it seems to work fine with the 3U capsules, but the CM-63 might be 3 db quieter and has the pad so it can handle 10 more dB of loudness.

 

[MicMaven]

it's not clear to me which to buy. The CM-60 seems like a safe bet because everyone says it's a great deal, and it seems to work fine with the 3U capsules, but the CM-63 might be 3 db quieter and has the pad so it can handle 10 more dB of loudness.

I agree it is a close call. I believe the CM-60 and CM-63 schematics are different. The cost differential is less than $15, so it boils down to how they sound, not how much they cost. (I may have schematics somewhere ... and I will look for same if you think it would help.)
I have a CM-60 and a pair of MXL 603/604 omnidirectional capsules, and confirm the MXL capsules DO fit and play well with the CM-60. Oddly, I received two omni capsules, when the data sheet in the box documents both omni and cardiod types, but it is what it is.

Let me know if I can do anything that might help you and others gather additional data points from how they sound or from photos or whatever. I learn a lot from this group, and look for opportunities to contribute, myself, so if you have any ideas, just ask. Happy trails to you. James /K8JHR

 

[jp8]

CM-63 schematic can be found in the MicBuilders group when you open the link provided by bfbii in post #15.

Expecting to receive a CM-60 and CM-63 in a few weeks from now. I can take some noise and FR measurements, if anyone else hasn't shared them in the meantime. Would be interesting to compare with an AKG P170, which is most likely also made by Takstar, but having an AKG pricetag. Some pictures of the P170 attached. Much better build quality compared to MXL 603/604.

Jan

 

[bfbiii]

I also have a CM-63 incoming, and will be able to confirm whether the .5mm 3U Audio capsule makes contact.