Takstar CM-60 + 3U hyper

[Emmathom]

Did you block the holes on the back side of the actual capsule (which is what I think was meant) or the slots on the sides of the housing it's in?

Hum... I see where you go : I blocked the vents (with tape just to see) on the outside of the cardio capsule, not inside I admit (and now realize I should have tried !)

 

[jeremynothman]

I do recommand the Superlux S502 ORTF (Mk1 not the Mk2) it's a must have in one's gear (95€ !)

Out of interest, do you mean that the MK 2 is not as good, or purely that you haven't tried it/have the MK 1 ?

In any case, they look interesting (and cheap!)

 

[Emmathom]

Out of interest, do you mean that the MK 2 is not as good, or purely that you haven't tried it/have the MK 1 ?

In any case, they look interesting (and cheap!)

customers at Thomann say that MKII is very (very !) sensitive to interferences
S502 MKI is really a fantastic mic and not only for the price ! change signal path capa and decoupling ones and you're ready to go

 

[Emmathom]

I went looking in my collection and I have an Avantone CK-1 which claims 17 dBA and a Gauge ECM-84 which claims 18 dBA... But they both use the longer contact pin. Dang it! Pretty sure the only 22mm with the short pin I have is this Takstar. Do you happen to know if that MXL 604 uses the shorter pin?

Hi bfbiii ! you said you have an Avantone CK-1 : what do you think of this mic with original caps. ? did you try to fit the Takstar cap. on it ? if it fits so the 3U 5mm would also fit the Avantone...
I'm pretty sure I will get 3U omni capsules (a pair) but I'm stil wondering wich body-preamp choosing... I've noticed that Takstar CM-63 is a not-bad-choice but what about Avantone CK-1 ?
B.R.

 

[bfbiii]

The Avantone CK-1 with original caps is interesting because at its price point it is sensitive--if you need some distance, etc. But the body has electrical noise at 60, 120, 240 Hz that I do not like, and I have not seen the noise remedied by a cap switch.

Technically it uses caps with a longer pin than the Takstar / .5mm from 3U. So a real replacement would be the 3mm from 3U. However the Takstar CM-60 cap DOES make contact and function with the Avantone CK-1 whereas the Takstar CM-63 cap DOES NOT. This is because the CM-63 cap pin is both shorter than the CM-60 & has a divot at the end making it functionally shorter still.

For my purposes, I would choose a 3U cap on a CM-63 over the Avantone.

 

[Emmathom]

Thanks !
I think I have (finally) my "duo" : a Takstar CM-63 pre ($40) + a 3U 5mm. omni cap ($145) = +/- $185 for a good SDC omni !
a real condenser mic (not an electret one)

 

[jp8]

Ok I found 3U omni 5mm on their ebay shop = $120 free shipping
Now gotta find a good preamp : Takstar CM-63 ? MXL-603 ? other ?
What do you advise ?
PS: I was about to buy a Line Audio OM1pair... until I found this thread

edit : I just found an Alctron T-02 on wich 3U 5mm cap. would fit I guess...

Received my Alctron T-02. I was able to screw on the Takstar CM-60 capsule, but not with ease. Under the microscope, I saw some burrs and signs of poor machining. But it looks to have the same nickel color of the 3U capsules. Electronics is your standard Schoeps circuit. I'm having a bit of a mixed feeling about PCBA workmanship and OCB design. No separate ground for the oscillator, which is a sure way to get 2MHz in your audio path, which must then be "cured" by filtering it out in the output stage with 22nF capacitors. I also found some solder splatters, which could cause shorts, and lots of solder flux on and around the teflon turrets, basically nullifying their purpose of high-impedance insulators in a moist environment.

If color mismatch between body and capsule are not a concern to you, I would definitely recommend the CM-63. Better overall build quality, probably better moisture protection and excellent RF immunity.

If you decide for the Alctron, you'll want the 3U 3mm capsules, by the way.

Jan

 

[Emmathom]

Received my Alctron T-02. I was able to screw on the Takstar CM-60 capsule, but not with ease. Under the microscope, I saw some burrs and signs of poor machining. But it looks to have the same nickel color of the 3U capsules. Electronics is your standard Schoeps circuit. I'm having a bit of a mixed feeling about PCBA workmanship and OCB design. No separate ground for the oscillator, which is a sure way to get 2MHz in your audio path, which must then be "cured" by filtering it out in the output stage with 22nF capacitors. I also found some solder splatters, which could cause shorts, and lots of solder flux on and around the teflon turrets, basically nullifying their purpose of high-impedance insulators in a moist environment.

If color mismatch between body and capsule are not a concern to you, I would definitely recommend the CM-63. Better overall build quality, probably better moisture protection and excellent RF immunity.

If you decide for the Alctron, you'll want the 3U 3mm capsules, by the way.

Jan

Thanks jp8 for all these reports... Knowing that T-02 is more expensive (and less quality) I would follow you and buy a CM-63 + 3U 5mm omni capsules...

And at the same time, I'm wondering if I shouldn't take the plunge to a REAL GOOD pair of condenser mics (omni) I would keep for good...
My wish list is :
* Shure KSM-141 (very good reports from all users) > $1000 a pair
* Audio Technica AT4022 (very good reports from all users) > 900$ a pair
* DPA ST2015 (wide cardio and also excellent reports from all users) > $1500 a pair
* DPA ST2006C > $1900 a pair

I am also looking toward mesurement mics... 'cause they have linear FR and they are always omni

 

[jp8]

If your budget is sufficient, then for sure I guess you can get some high quality mics for that money. My son has DPA4090 omni mics, which are about half the price of the mics you mentioned and which are supposedly almost ruler flat. He got them at a bargain price and wants to use them for PA measurement and calibration. You can't go wrong with DPA, I would say.

Measurement mics might be flat (or flattish), but the cheap ones are noisy and not all of them can handle high SPL. Just that you are aware of it.

Jan

 

[Emmathom]

I don't own a studio and don't go in studios. I only record classical ensembles in churches or so. at the end, I would like to finish with "let's say" 3 great pairs only. one LDC + one cardio SDC + one omni SDC
an audio card with 6-8 inputs but line inputs because I only use the mic pre (tube) I build.

I recall my actual set-up :
* 1 x U47 Fet Stam Audio (on shipping / will soon receive it and be able to test)
* 2 x sE2300 (for sale now)
* 2 x Oktava MK-012
* 2 x Warm Audio WA-84
* 1 x SC1100 (that will receive Arienne U47-flat and if it's really good I will buy a second one because I have 2 Arienne U47-flat : this new pair will replace sE2300)
* 1 x Superlux S502 ORTF (wich is excellent and not only for the price)
* 1 x Shure SM81 (great mic)
* 2 x Griffon GMS-120 (for sale)
I will keep or the Oktava pair or the Warm Audio pair > or I resell these 2 pairs to get a DPA...

 

[Emmathom]

If your budget is sufficient, then for sure I guess you can get some high quality mics for that money. My son has DPA4090 omni mics, which are about half the price of the mics you mentioned and which are supposedly almost ruler flat. He got them at a bargain price and wants to use them for PA measurement and calibration. You can't go wrong with DPA, I would say.

Measurement mics might be flat (or flattish), but the cheap ones are noisy and not all of them can handle high SPL. Just that you are aware of it.

Jan

* DPA 4090 : yes they are "affordable" for my budget > $1300 a pair new
* Mesurement mics : ok for high SPL but I told myself they could do a good job in acoustic classical instruments recording (depends on the price-range for sure)
* Did you ever have experience or comments on Audio Technica AT4022 ?

 

[Emmathom]

mesurement mic Beyer MM1... ? (230€ > $250)

 

[jp8]

As a measurement mic, I guess the MM1 is probably OK, at least assuming it is calibrated and it comes with a calibration file for that specific microphone and not with a generic one. But as I said, the devil is in the details: max 122 dBSPL (could be OK for your purposes) and self-noise level of 26 dB(A). This is OK for measurement mics, but is 6-10 dB(A) worse compared to many SDCs. This may become audible in the more silent passages. I don't want to pretend to be a measurement mic Guru, but I do know the Earthworks are generally considered the best, combining high max SPL with relatively low self noise. E.g the "low-end" M23 is specced at max 140 dBSPL and 20 dB(A) self noise. But you guess it: expensive.

My son has the ISEMcon EMX7150, which he bought when we did the SMAART training last year. Can handle up to 140 dBSPL, but self noise is quite high: 30 dB(A). Not very good for recording purposes, I would say.

I don't have any experience with the AT4022, nor does my son, who is a live sound engineer, have it. I bought quite some budget SDC and LDC mics (< €100/pc) for modification, which I hope I can one day proudly offer to my son to use for his work. I don't have any hands-on experience in live or studio recording/mixing and rely on my son's professional knowledge and his ears when judging the audio qualities of microphones. And he relies on my knowledge of electronics.

Jan

 

[Emmathom]

As a measurement mic, I guess the MM1 is probably OK, at least assuming it is calibrated and it comes with a calibration file for that specific microphone and not with a generic one. But as I said, the devil is in the details: max 122 dBSPL (could be OK for your purposes) and self-noise level of 26 dB(A). This is OK for measurement mics, but is 6-10 dB(A) worse compared to many SDCs. This may become audible in the more silent passages. I don't want to pretend to be a measurement mic Guru, but I do know the Earthworks are generally considered the best, combining high max SPL with relatively low self noise. E.g the "low-end" M23 is specced at max 140 dBSPL and 20 dB(A) self noise. But you guess it: expensive.

My son has the ISEMcon EMX7150, which he bought when we did the SMAART training last year. Can handle up to 140 dBSPL, but self noise is quite high: 30 dB(A). Not very good for recording purposes, I would say.

I don't have any experience with the AT4022, nor does my son, who is a live sound engineer, have it. I bought quite some budget SDC and LDC mics (< €100/pc) for modification, which I hope I can one day proudly offer to my son to use for his work. I don't have any hands-on experience in live or studio recording/mixing and rely on my son's professional knowledge and his ears when judging the audio qualities of microphones. And he relies on my knowledge of electronics.

Jan

Ok Jan and thanks for your testimony. A measurement mic don't fit because of its own self-noise (a thing I wasn't aware of)
I have choice for SDC cardio in my set-up (Oktava or Warma Audio + Superlux ORTF) but I must make a choice on wich omni pair I'm gonna put my money in... It goes to extrems from a pair of Takstar CM-63 + 3U ($180) to a pair of DPA 4090 ($1500) with different options between this range
Anyway thanks for your help : I will let you know what is my last choice

 

[Emmathom]

Hi Jan, I think I found my goal : I'm about to buy a pair of Universum (modified 48v) which comes with EM21 cardio capsules. I'll have to buy 2*EM23 at Micbooster but their matched pair are out of stock for the moment so I emailed them to know if & when they will be available again...
I guess the Universum is the same Primo EMU 4535 or 4520 (by the picture)

 

[jp8]

Primo has a good reputation, so I guess you can't go wrong with this choice. Enjoy your purchase!

Jan