Tantalum decoupling caps

[JohnRoberts]

JR I haven't had on of those folded pc board Peavey amps in the shop for many years now.

I have been off campus for over 20 years now and those folded PC boards were very cost effective in a thru hole machine inserted jumpers world.

I recall pioneering that technology using multiple machine inserted wire jumpers to connect break away boards to mother boards, etc. I recall designing one simple line level mixer for the AMR division that went through the wave soldering line as a single board with all the front panel pots/switches and rear panel input/output jacks inserted and wave soldered. After the board got to the mixer final assembly line the boards were just broken apart and folded up.

I recall that someone in upper management did not believe the manufacturing cost analysis, thinking that it looked too cheap to be possible. Cost engineering confirmed that it was indeed that inexpensive to assemble.

Nowadays everything is probably small smd PCBs and ribbon cables, not that we didn't use ribbon cables back then.

JR

 

[Newmarket]

It doesn't. Similar here in UK. Exceptions apply.
I can just go to TLC and buy a replacement.
The enclosed lights mentioned are a problem area. As you point out LEDs don't do well when it gets hot.

Obvs I mean TLC the electrical trade counter company in UK. Not the music group from Atlanta. OTOH I don't know if they have a sideline in electrical trade distribution

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Incandescent bulbs below a certain efficiency rating have been banned here except for exclusive applications or automotive - seems it has nothing to do with responsible sourcing of minerals but preventing blackouts due to the closure of too many coal-fired power stations without a suitable replacement - they privatised the power stations and if they’re not economically viable they get shut down. We get blackouts in summer (air conditioners) and in winter (heaters and air conditioners). Solar backup is subsidised and they’re now strapping batteries to the sides of houses to supply in high demand or feed back to the grid in low demand peak periods.
Just waiting for the first house batteries to start exploding - we get several fires a week from eCycle batteries on charge totally destroying homes . If we spent as much time testing electrical and electronic components as we do on testing medications and medical devices we probably would have more reliability but then we couldn’t afford the gear. (No animals harmed in the testing of our batteries - only humans - whew!! What a relief!!)

 

[RoadrunnerOZ]

Nowadays everything is probably small smd PCBs and ribbon cables, not that we didn't use ribbon cables back then.

Some of the earlier ribbon cables were pretty cool - stiff wires that when lined up would go into a series of holes no problem. They seem to be hard to find. The type they used in some of the console sandwiches were the double layer of plastic with flat wires between that delaminate. If you know of a source of those it would be much appreciated or the grey ribbons with the encased stiff twisted wires.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

They don't need to be relabeled to escaped regulation. They are exempt.

That's great except it ignores the manufacturing reality. Companies making incandescent bulbs now have artificially restricted products/markets. That will likely lead to them shutting down manufacturing because the new restrictions reduce the TAM making manufacturing economically unviable. Government bureaucrats are incapable of thinking at the larger system level and end up causing all kinds of unintended (but obvious to people in industry) problems just like this with "do-gooder" and "green" mandates.

 

[Newmarket]

That's great except it ignores the manufacturing reality. Companies making incandescent bulbs now have artificially restricted products/markets. That will likely lead to them shutting down manufacturing because the new restrictions reduce the TAM making manufacturing economically unviable. Government bureaucrats are incapable of thinking at the larger system level and end up causing all kinds of unintended (but obvious to people in industry) problems just like this with "do-gooder" and "green" mandates.

Not really. The products in question have specific use cases. Overall reduction in incandescent production likely reduces overall economies of scale.
But removal of mass market for incandescent bulbs has largely already happened. And there appears to be no crisis in the supply of specialist bulbs.
Worst case - industries requiring such bulbs will need to support / pay more for / self-manufacture the required lamps. Or use an alternative technology / redesign to remove the need.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Not really. The products in question have specific use cases. Overall reduction in incandescent production likely reduces overall economies of scale.

That has been happening organically for decades and accelerating because LED bulbs (finally) have some desirable attributes. At least the better ones.

But removal of mass market for incandescent bulbs has largely already happened. And there appears to be no crisis in the supply of specialist bulbs.

Maybe not where you live (yet), but it's a problem here.

Worst case - industries requiring such bulbs will need to support / pay more for / self-manufacture the required lamps. Or use an alternative technology / redesign to remove the need.

Magical thinking. Replacement technology doesn't just appear when short-sighted gov barges into the market with mandates and bans. We have had a perfectly viable 1USD solution for many decades until now. What about the usable existing appliances that are slowly amortizing their initial investment in manufacturing cost (in currency and environmental damage, etc.)? Are people supposed to throw them away because gov thoughtlessly banned an important component?

Similar problems were caused by RoHS with things like CdS photocells becoming scarce or not made to usable specs. I remember all the "tantalum is an evil conflict metal" talk some years back. Well, trying to restrict a useful material is not the solution. Resolving the conflict or developing new sources outside of conflict zones are two viable solutions.

As for the original topic...I figure the circuit designer had the relevant tradeoffs in mind, so I would replace tant with tant (possibly with a higher working voltage spec). So far I haven't experienced any such failures in my old test equipment or audio/music gear.

 

[Newmarket]

Maybe not where you live (yet), but it's a problem here.

What bulbs are you unable to source ?

 

[Cqwet Dbdfte]

Now that everyone and his sister wants an EV, the problem material Cobalt would be next on the list.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

What bulbs are you unable to source ?

The bulb for my oven and the two for the range hood are no longer available locally (for a dollar or two). I can mail order some mystery bulb for $5-40 plus shipping, but it may be a junky short life copy of what I could buy at any hardware store last year. Thanks for needlessly complicating life for no real gain.

 

[Newmarket]

Where ? (Dollar doesn't narrow it down much).

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Where ? (Dollar doesn't narrow it down much).

In my town in the southern US. Beyond that isn't your business.

 

[Newmarket]

In my town in the southern US. Beyond that isn't your business.

That's fine. I wasn't asking your personal address fgs.