TC Electronic problems...

[delphi]

Hi All,

I have a Finalizer Plus that powers up OK, but as soon as the relay clicks on, the input metering immediately goes to full scale and fluctuates up and down, whilst the gain reduction meter then kicks in and meters full range gain reduction and the limiter meters show overload. This is with nothing plugged into the unit

I hadn't even considered the PSU as a possible reason as everything else works including all the buttons/programming but after reading this thread it occurred to me that whist the 5 volt rail is obviously functioning and the switching starts up, maybe the 15v rails might be the culprit. Sure enough the 5v rail is spot on, as is the -15V, but the +15V rail is only measuring 1.54Volts.

I'm pretty useless in my understanding of SMPS theory and unsurprisingly don't have a schematic. Before I go down the route of recapping etc, any smps gurus out there have any ideas other than bad caps for this fault?

Personally, I have lost count of how many failures I have had with studio gear as well as TV's and monitors due to SMPS failures. Bad caps seem to the majority culprit - but one wonders why hi end studio gear manufacturers don't spend more attention to SMPS designs, components and safeguards. Any piece of gear costing over $1000 targeted at professional users wont suffer if the manufacturer has to add $20 to the end price to recover cost for extra components and better components so the SMPS will actually work for its intended life. From the analysis of this TC SMPS fault it isn't that they used poor quality components ( as I could easily see), but missed obvious safeguards.

I know caps aren't long life items, but "overspeccing" and good design can maximize their time in service in many cases I would have thought. It should be like writing good software - apart from delivering the function required as much thought has to be given to what might go wrong and code for those risks.

Just my 2c.

Long live linear PSU's

 

[s2udio]

With 5v and -15v present , that's a good indication that the primary pwm chopper section is working OK.
Look for a dried up cap or shorted diode, or oc resistor on the 15V out rail .
IMHO a complete recap is recommended on these psu'S ,while checking all the output rail components will reveal the culprit,
Do you get +/- 15v with the psu output wires disconnected from the main board ?

 

[gyraf]

one wonders why hi end studio gear manufacturers don't spend more attention to SMPS designs, components and safeguards.

Yes, but the TC wizard-series doesn't exactly count as high-end these days, does it?

You rarely see a psu error in a System6000.

They probably do the best compromize they can between price and durability.

Jakob E.

 

[delphi]

Hi S2udio,

Thanks for the feedback. I have now disconnected from the main PCB and the low reading for the +15V rail remains, so if you were wondering if the rail was being pulled down by a fault on the main board - I guess this now firmly points to the fault being contained in the SMPS. Tested diodes and resistors and they are OK so I will now replace all electros per your recommendation.

Cheers

 

[radardoug]

Often in switchmodes, when the caps dry out you can get unpredictable effects, such as the supply not starting because the filter does not integrate the sense voltage, and the supply thinks its overvoltage.
As a general rule, if its ten years old, recap it!

 

[cbarrett92]

Just wanted to say thank you to Svart for the work! I had an M2000 at work that hadn't worked in years and figured I'd give this a shot. 15 minutes later I have a working M2000 again!

Thanks again Svart!

 

[AlbertoM]

Hi all!, thanks Svart for your work! it has saved my M2000, but now I'm fighting with a Finalizer, when taking out the cap (the same you are pointing in the picture) it got squashed and the values I read were 47uf 50v, I've changed it with a 47uf 63v but it's not working, can anybody confirm the values for this capacitor?

Thanks!

 

[Chris93]

This is an old topic, but I need to say thanks, yet another M2000 up and running thanks to Svart.  ;D

I notice all the caps in the unit are 85 degree rated, and there aren't all that many. would it be a worthwhile project to replace these with 105's in the future?

My PSU had some weird orange gunk in it which had dried and created a crusty substance over some of the other caps. I presume this is to hold everything together and not the result of an exploded cap? I doubt the cap would work if the stuff had come from inside it.

There is a nice brown scorch mark on the inside of the lid above the PSU, and I've had this for a year. Either it's worked for a year with that damage, or it happened while I was using it, but I think I'd have noticed . I bought it used so maybe something went wrong before and was repaired.

The date code on my main PCB is 96-50, so it lasted a respectably long time.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[kazper]

I've recently got a wizard from eBay that was DOA.  Once I settled up with the seller, I ordered a new PSU while Ethan figured out the forum changes. Tonight I decided to see how bad of shape the units in.... Since there is a 3-4 week delay in the new..

Well I pulled out the PSU and decided to pull out the caps, and make notes of the values and sizes.
[ will post info here later]

I've never seen caps so far out of specifications as these.  Honestly I've never been a big fan of just recap mentality.  Every time I pulled another one out and checked it seemed to be worse off then the last one. This was the case with most of them untill I got to the smaller caps in the output area.

lets see how well this works once I get some parts in from mouser.

 

[Rob Flinn]

DOes anyone have a list of the cap values for the 1U supply ?  I have an M3000 on the bench which has some leaking caps in it.  Would like to change the lot.

 

[Whoops]

One more victim here of the M2000 problems.

This unit shows input overload on the Left input after booting the firmware at startup.

There's nothing connected to any input.

I tested the right channel using Engine 2 and it works

Will do more tests in the next days

 

[shaggy]

(bump)
Hi guys. Old thread I know, but I could really use some M2000 help.

Today I tried to fire up my M2000 that was stored unused for a very long time. Backlight came on w/ nothing on the display. LEDs illuminate randomly, or not at all. It seems the firmware isn't initializing. Or something.

Checked supply voltages, they're all within spec except for where the brown wire goes (pad marked 5V), which reads 3.2V.

On-board lithium batt. is prob. dead but I figure that shouldn't affect startup. (With power on, there's 3V across the battery.)

After reading this thread, I replaced the 100uF/25V cap by the daughterboard, mentioned earlier by svart. Old cap measured almost to spec (with not quite the recommended 16V across it, under power). Replaced it anyway. Reassembled, voltages are same as before.

I hesitate to willy-nilly replace all electrolytics yet (looks like major PIA), as I have a feeling the problem might be elsewhere.

But what?

--thanks for any ideas

 

[Whoops]

it seems more people have dead screen complaints on these units, check this thread:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/1151528-tc-electronics-dead-screens.html

It seems someone fix it by replacing C19.
I would replace the PSU and bigger Electrolytic caps in the unit, shotgun method, it's not that time consumming or expensive, so better to do that.

I'm sure theres a fix for this.

It's a shame these are good sounding units, but TC doesnt make them to last.

 

[Whoops]

If the probably is from the LCD screen itself, it's not expensive to replace:

https://www.fullcompass.com/prod/539760-tc-electronic-a09-00001-62486-wizard-lcd-display-for-fireworx-g-force-and-m2000

Although the problem might be elsewhere and not in the LCD screen itself

 

[shaggy]

Thanks for the suggestions. Looks like more than just the display driver though, LEDs are all nuts. No firmware bootup by the looks.

Is the batt. 3.6V? Only 3V on it from the charge circuit. That 5V pad (brn wire) that only shows 3.2V. Where's that go?

I'll keep at it as I find time. Need to find a schematic.

--cheers

 

[justanalogue]

Look also at the LED on the PCB, I am struggling with a TC Triple C where the display doesn't show the right characters, re capped all the caps of the PSU but still the same, I noticed when I am entering a special menu it all is correct and the LED doesn't light up, as soon as I go back to normal it's on.

So I guess this means another problem, have contacted a company who services TC gear for ages, hope they can give me more info.

I think the Rom is probably corrupted, a SST39VF040  chip of a couple of shackles.
Only thing is: How to get the right firmware/software in it?

Kind regards,

Willem.

 

[shaggy]

Thanks Willem. I see the LED on the motherboard - flashes briefly on power up, doesn't stay on. No response whatsoever from front panel buttons.

Good luck with yours. If mine's got an MPU or RAM problem I'm probly gonna jump ship on TC, as I don't have time for a wild goose chase with known unreliable gear. But I don't give up easy, and would still like to see a schematic, even just out of curiosity.

Re the SMPS problem, anybody thought of trying an external PS?

Best wishes
Dave

 

[Whoops]

Re the SMPS problem, anybody thought of trying an external PS?

Best wishes
Dave

If the problem is from the SMPS and it's too much work to fix it you dont need an external PSU, you can replace the internal one with any PSU you want with the same supplies.

External box also the same thing. Any of you if the voltages and current supply is the same

 

[shaggy]

Yes, I wish it was just the power supply. Unfortunately it looks like logic/firmware problem. Or both.

Anybody found a M2000 schematic?

 

[mjrippe]

Yes, I wish it was just the power supply. Unfortunately it looks like logic/firmware problem. Or both.

Anybody found a M2000 schematic?

Until you get that brown wire up to +5v I would not worry about logic/firmware.  Is the red +5v correct?

I have a dead one here and if recap does not fix it I may off it for parts...