The absurdity of US college textbooks

[john12ax7]

Textbooks always did seem like a racket, pricing never made much sense.

Ultimately learning is up to the individual. But going to a top school does have its advantages, like access to world renowned experts in their field and top notch facilities. But the biggest advantage is probably the network you are then a part of, it opens doors that would be an uphill battle otherwise.

 

[user 37518]

For the record I attended university far, far from CA. Prior to the late 80s to early 90s academics was emphasized and on-campus amenities were basic, even Spartan.

I've heard of kids selecting one college over the other, just because one had a Starbucks inside the campus....

 

[AnalogPackrat]

I've heard of kids selecting one college over the other, just because one had a Starbucks inside the campus....

Effed up priorities don't usually lead to success. I foresee a lifetime of debt and dependency. I drank instant coffee made in my hotpot or the cafeteria stuff included in my meal plan.

 

[wlinart]

As a teacher at a college in Belgium, this is weird to read. Part of my job is writing the textbooks for the courses i teach myself. They are sold for printing cost. My courses cost about €3 for introduction to DC, same for introduction to AC, or other subjects i'm teaching. Of course those courses aren't on the level of some of the books shared in this thread. If we want our students to use a commercial textbook, we have to justify why we can't do something ourselves, and if it's more than €50, forget it.

 

[user 37518]

As a teacher at a college in Belgium, this is weird to read. Part of my job is writing the textbooks for the courses i teach myself. They are sold for printing cost. My courses cost about €3 for introduction to DC, same for introduction to AC, or other subjects i'm teaching. Of course those courses aren't on the level of some of the books shared in this thread. If we want our students to use a commercial textbook, we have to justify why we can't do something ourselves, and if it's more than €50, forget it.

Again, this is a touchy subject, but I teach at a public university and students don't have to pay a dime. The university provides all students and academics with free Matlab(the most complete version), free Mathematica, free MS Office, Autocad, etc... they provide medical insurance, free access to most of the prestigious journals out there, free parking for their cars, etc... You can get a full meal for around $2-3 USD at the cafeteria. A lot of books are available in the library and the faculty also writes manuals. I mostly give my students a bibliography of books they can resource to, and I'll assign different readings or problems from different books, rather than imposing them a specific textbook.

 

[john12ax7]

In the US some professors are cognizant of the costs and will go out of their way to provide alternatives to keep the costs down. They are more the exception though.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

My MS thesis advisor was a workaholic insomniac. He wrote three textbooks while I was at school and was working on a fourth when I graduated. Two of the texts were in draft form pre-publication when I took the courses. He had the local Kinko's print and bind (with those plastic multi-hole deals) a set for each student at something around half the price the hardbound books were later priced. The copies were double sided and the bound set was about 2" thick. Given the price of printing/xeroxing at the time only Kinko's made any money.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

This graph is for K-12 US public schools, but the same phenomenon are present in public institutions of higher education as well.

 

[dchang0]

so I'll ask: exactly what happened that made affordable college tuitions from the 1960s suddenly become soul-selling-tuitions in the 1990s and onwards?

It was the Higher Education Act of 1965 that started us on the hockey-stick portion* of college tuitions over time.

https://millennialmoneyman.com/wp-content/uploads/college-tuition.png?x87227
Looks strikingly similar to how Nixon's closing of the gold window in 1971 started us on the hockey-stick portion of the national debt because the US governments could now spend and freely devalue the currency to pay for it. Today, we enjoy super-inflation, the precursor to hyper-inflation. Yay.

The basic economic premise behind both is "moral hazard." Once a moral hazard is set up and made permanent, a racket is practically guaranteed to form eventually.

---
* The Higher Education Act isn't the only factor but was the straw that broke the camel's back, after which tuitions began to ascend rapidly. Other federal actions like the National Defense Student Loan program (part of the National Defense Education Act of 1958) laid the foundation for the Higher Education Act.

 

[5v333]

So how is going with the math master? Did you get any books for reasonable prices?

 

[user 37518]

So how is going with the math master? Did you get any books for reasonable prices?

Well there are many books that I did buy for next to nothing, unfortunately, the textbooks required by the university are expensive as hell

 

[5v333]

Sorry to hear.
So the studies are off i take it?

I just started my second year in physics (bachelor).

 

[user 37518]

Sorry to hear.
So the studies are off i take it?

I just started my second year in physics (bachelor).

No I am still studying the masters, but I had to spend on books which are rarely used. I already have an M.EE. and PhD EE, but I've always considered that EEs do not know enough math, particularly the "darker math" like abstract algebra, calculus of variations and similar stuff, which suddenly come out to bite you when you least expect it. The first time it happened to me was during my M.EE where I took a Finite Element Analysis course, and you suddenly say to yourself: "uh-oh".

Physics is a great field but the opposite happens, most physicists I know know a lot of math and obviously a lot of physics but very little engineering.

Its funny because during grad school, the physicists who go into applied physics fields have to learn about engineering and the opposite happens to EEs which have to learn more about physics, lets say that things equalize a bit in grad school. Although in your case, I bet it will be easier since you already know electronics. Really work on developing solid foundations on the basic subjects in the first years of your bachelors, those are the most important!

 

[5v333]

Hope you can sell thoose books afterwards then! Hows it going then?
I think you are brave or maybe a little bit crazy by taking on a master in maths without a bachelor in maths. Math is so different in various fields.

The courses im attending currently are mathematical physics and a sec course in linear algebra.
Unfortunatly the lin alg course is rather theoritcal with lots of proofs and such. Not my bag... But it is quite interesting.

In my program we also learn a little bit of matlab, python, do some various labs... A lot is experimental based, as in, try to work this out by your self and write a rapport afterwards. It can feel a bit impossible at times but its cool to practice problem solving.

 

[user 37518]

Hope you can sell thoose books afterwards then! Hows it going then?
I think you are brave or maybe a little bit crazy by taking on a master in maths without a bachelor in maths. Math is so different in various fields.

The courses im attending currently are mathematical physics and a sec course in linear algebra.
Unfortunatly the lin alg course is rather theoritcal with lots of proofs and such. Not my bag... But it is quite interesting.

In my program we also learn a little bit of matlab, python, do some various labs... A lot is experimental based, as in, try to work this out by your self and write a rapport afterwards. It can feel a bit impossible at times but its cool to practice problem solving.

The program is going ok, sometimes, as you mention it is beyond my usual domain, the good thing is that it is a Master's in Applied Mathematics, not pure mathematics, otherwise I would certainly be doomed. There is a lot of practical stuff about it, labs like you mention, analysis of the behavior of systems and models and numerical techniques rather than full-on abstract proof based math. There are some problems that do require proofs and those are the hardest.

During my MEE and PhD I had to get into some heavy math, electrical network synthesis is basically pure hardcore math, and in high-frequency electronics you have to forget everything you learned about electric circuits and work with Maxwell equations, like finding the equations for EM waveguides of different shapes, but there is only so much you can do analytically because finding solutions to real 3D systems, like a circuit board or some weird antenna, by using Maxwell equations is impossible to do by hand. If you are the kind of person who enjoys scary movies or scary games, I recommend the book "Advanced Engineering Electromagnetics" by Balanis. Vector calculus is nasty....

At some point during your studies you'll meet Maxwell and Schrödinger, thats when the shit hits the fan...

 

[5v333]

Thanks for sharing.
Ok applied maths sounds more appropriate for mortals.

Next course in physics will be em field theory. Looking forward to it and I guess Maxwell will do his big entrance at that point.
After christmas comes my first course in quantum mechanics. That one im afraid of actually.

When you say different shapes of em waves, do you mean like polarisation?

 

[user 37518]

Thanks for sharing.
Ok applied maths sounds more appropriate for mortals.

Next course in physics will be em field theory. Looking forward to it and I guess Maxwell will do his big entrance at that point.
After christmas comes my first course in quantum mechanics. That one im afraid of actually.

When you say different shapes of em waves, do you mean like polarisation?

No, when I say different shapes I actually mean objects. It is possible to obtain equations for the EM field when the shapes you are working on are regular objects, like squares, cylinders, spheres and so on... but when you have something highly irregular like a circuit board with traces in it or an antenna, then doing it by hand with vector calculus is simply not possible... So what you basically do is divide the object into many small regular forms, like squares or similar, and you compute the EM field on each of these small regular forms, but you need a computer to create a mesh around the object you want to study, similar to what CGI designers do by using polygons to create animation, and then you can compute numerically everything, but doing it by hand is out of the question.

 

[john12ax7]

5v333, quantum mechanics isn't as scary in reality as it sounds. There is also usually a very generous curve in those types of classes.

user 37518, is there an advantage for you getting another formal degree? I just ask because for me I found it easier (and cheaper) to just take classes and learn about things that truly interest you and then skip some of the rigid requirements and formalities.

 

[user 37518]

5v333, quantum mechanics isn't as scary in reality as it sounds. There is also usually a very generous curve in those types of classes.

user 37518, is there an advantage for you getting another formal degree? I just ask because for me I found it easier (and cheaper) to just take classes and learn about things that truly interest you and then skip some of the rigid requirements and formalities.

You are probably right. But there are several reasons I decided to pursue this degree, first, I received a very generous scholarship, second the program is quite attractive, third, it looks good in my resumé if I try to ask for a tenured position at the university I work in.

Also, the pressure of wanting to get good grades forces you to really commit to it. Studying by yourself is good, and I've done it most of my life, but is not the same when there is not that hard commitment. Even if you enroll into a MOOC such as Coursera or EDX there is not that level of pressure.

 

[user 37518]

Thanks for sharing.
Ok applied maths sounds more appropriate for mortals.

Next course in physics will be em field theory. Looking forward to it and I guess Maxwell will do his big entrance at that point.
After christmas comes my first course in quantum mechanics. That one im afraid of actually.

When you say different shapes of em waves, do you mean like polarisation?

You are a physicist, so you are probably going to use Jackson's book on EM theory, nasty stuff. BTW, if Quantum scares you, wait till you get to Quantum Electrodynamics, which is EM theory combined with Quantum Mechanics. Fortunately for me, that is beyond the typical EE curricula... But I did have to go through a couple of courses involving Quantum Mechanics, one of them was called "Electronic Physics", which is basically Quantum Mechanics focused on semiconductors.