Barry Hufker
Well-known member
I'm very happy to have your reply to this topic. I was afraid my B.S. detector was failing me. But what about the testimonials? Are they legit, and if so, why?
The end of the end of the rainbow
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When you stack pipe insulation on cardboard tubes in a depth of 3 to 4 feet deep, you’ve created a bass trap. When you use a mic at a listening position and tune by adding more trapping you are creating a critical listening position. There are a variety of ways to do this. Eric is a DIYER at heart. He also has the rewarding gigs and sold a property in LA that gave him money and time to pursue an obvious love of music and acoustics and willing to share what he’s learned.
That independent nature is what I enjoy about him. Those free standing traps are much easier to experiment with than hanging panels made of sound deadening board with insulation stapled up and hanging from wires to a ceiling. I’m not sure what his method will be to cover them up but his previous studios have a combat zone appearance to them.
His clients keep coming back to work with him. That barn in Vermont is beautiful but just heating the thing in the winter would scare me. It seems his personality mixed with his ears and sensitivity are a wining combination and remind me of other pioneers like Les Paul and Rudy Van Gelder’s spirit.
He has the clients and the money to hire a proper acoustics designer but prefers to apply principles of his own self education. I admire the guy but have my own ideas like all of you have.
I am not confusing Tube Traps the trademark product with Eric’s cardboard tubes with pipe insulation. It’s just a convenient term. His use of the resonance tubes is interesting and might be fun to play with. Those traps laying on the floor in front of him seem inconvenient to get to gear to adjust. The keyboard monitor cart/desk shows the effects of the surface surrounding the critical listening position and ways to address it in real-time. I can tell you after years of working, letting your head fall forward to look at the monitor tilted backwards is a guaranteed for neck problems down the road just like repetitive hand motions with a mouse cause aches and pains
That independent nature is what I enjoy about him. Those free standing traps are much easier to experiment with than hanging panels made of sound deadening board with insulation stapled up and hanging from wires to a ceiling. I’m not sure what his method will be to cover them up but his previous studios have a combat zone appearance to them.
His clients keep coming back to work with him. That barn in Vermont is beautiful but just heating the thing in the winter would scare me. It seems his personality mixed with his ears and sensitivity are a wining combination and remind me of other pioneers like Les Paul and Rudy Van Gelder’s spirit.
He has the clients and the money to hire a proper acoustics designer but prefers to apply principles of his own self education. I admire the guy but have my own ideas like all of you have.
I am not confusing Tube Traps the trademark product with Eric’s cardboard tubes with pipe insulation. It’s just a convenient term. His use of the resonance tubes is interesting and might be fun to play with. Those traps laying on the floor in front of him seem inconvenient to get to gear to adjust. The keyboard monitor cart/desk shows the effects of the surface surrounding the critical listening position and ways to address it in real-time. I can tell you after years of working, letting your head fall forward to look at the monitor tilted backwards is a guaranteed for neck problems down the road just like repetitive hand motions with a mouse cause aches and pains
Just read this thread and it reminds me of a fascinating paper (copy attached) I have in my library about acoustic absorbers, but this one is electronic, circa 1953. Not being an acoustics expert (but I do understand the usefulness of traps), I find the microphone and the loudspeaker he constructed for the purpose the best part. Surely someone makes an updated version of this idea ...
ruairioflaherty
Well-known member
Barry,
It's been a long time, I miss your voice over at PRW but I had to bail out!
Acoustics and monitoring is infuriatingly complex and there is a lot of motivated reasoning and frankly cynical behavior going around. I've positioned and tuned thousands of sets of speakers and done some heavy lifting acoustically for a lot of names you'd know and I've decided that it's not a viable business. I've given up trying to hold back a tidal wave of bad ideas.
Cheers,
Ruairi
Nothing wrong with reading Harry Olson for sound ideas. One more person to add to the list of greats is Bill Putnum. I’m not sure who he used for acoustics. Maybe Michael Rettinger
As far as I’m concerned, the future for us with all the formats is binaural headphone plug-ins to derive formats and correction. The rest is the quality and experience of using your ears. Anyone that has the income or opportunity to work in a well designed listening room with top tier monitors , consider yourself lucky
As far as I’m concerned, the future for us with all the formats is binaural headphone plug-ins to derive formats and correction. The rest is the quality and experience of using your ears. Anyone that has the income or opportunity to work in a well designed listening room with top tier monitors , consider yourself lucky
Barry Hufker
Well-known member
Hi Ruairi,
Thank you for the kind words. I'm sorry you're not at PRW anymore, but am very glad to have found you here.
I can appreciate your sentiments about fighting the tidal wave of bad ideas. I'm always on the lookout for some new take or improvement in audio, no matter what the topic. But as you said, there is always a wave of snake oil/faulty thinking that it's hard to find the trickle of genuine advancements. It's a shame that it has driven you away from something I'm sure you enjoyed.
Thank you for the kind words. I'm sorry you're not at PRW anymore, but am very glad to have found you here.
I can appreciate your sentiments about fighting the tidal wave of bad ideas. I'm always on the lookout for some new take or improvement in audio, no matter what the topic. But as you said, there is always a wave of snake oil/faulty thinking that it's hard to find the trickle of genuine advancements. It's a shame that it has driven you away from something I'm sure you enjoyed.
This x 1000!
Thomas W. Bethel
Member
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Been using Tube Traps for a long time. I have 8 of them in my mastering studio. Work GREAT! Art Noxon is a very nice. very well respected acoustician. I have read all of his papers and got a chance to meet him in person.
nielsk
Well-known member
If you have ever used an actual Tube Trap made by Acoustic Sciences you know they absorb a considerable amount of low frequency sound energy in a useful manner with a small foot print.
The only other treatment I know of that can achieve similar results in such a small footprint is an electronic active devise.
I have used Attack Wall systems in several different untreated rooms, large to small, with very useful results. I once ran a sweep of Bruce Swedien's control room, treated with Tube Traps only.
It had the most flat frequency response of any control room I have measured.
There is more to real Tube Traps than a cardboard tube and some insulation, they are a mechanically active device. There is plenty if information out there on it if one cares to be educated.
I have yet to hear anyone poo-poo them that has actually used them.
It is certainly possible to over use them, different sizes have different Q's, so too many of one size can remove too much of it's Q frequency, but this is not different that any form of treatment, really.
They are not cheap, but throwing tons of sh*t on the wall in an attempt to fix bad geometry winds up costing $$ too, and can create other problems.
As always, the place to start is basic room geometry.
The only other treatment I know of that can achieve similar results in such a small footprint is an electronic active devise.
I have used Attack Wall systems in several different untreated rooms, large to small, with very useful results. I once ran a sweep of Bruce Swedien's control room, treated with Tube Traps only.
It had the most flat frequency response of any control room I have measured.
There is more to real Tube Traps than a cardboard tube and some insulation, they are a mechanically active device. There is plenty if information out there on it if one cares to be educated.
I have yet to hear anyone poo-poo them that has actually used them.
It is certainly possible to over use them, different sizes have different Q's, so too many of one size can remove too much of it's Q frequency, but this is not different that any form of treatment, really.
They are not cheap, but throwing tons of sh*t on the wall in an attempt to fix bad geometry winds up costing $$ too, and can create other problems.
As always, the place to start is basic room geometry.
I seem to recall active room acoustic modification being done on large performance spaces back a couple decades ago. It seems like it would be easier to add reverb than subtract it.
===
My father was kind of in the business (RIP) I recall reading in one of his very old acoustics text books. I found it amusing that they defined a perfect sound absorber as an open window.
Most open windows today would be a sound source. ===
An old friend of mine Ethan Winer has a business making/selling sound treatments so this web page may be self serving but Bass Trap Myths
JR
This can’t be overstated. The reason I’ve been in my room for 15 years is that the dimensions fit in the golden ratio and I only have one common wall with a neighbor.
One important moment in my education was at a multi room mastering studio. Two rooms were built by a well known and reputable designer in the same size shell that was the golden ratio. A third room was in the same size shell but only had minimal treatment. I much preferred the sound in the room with minimal treatment.
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