The real attack on Democracy.

[AnalogPackrat]

I think you're providing all the evidence for me.

I was referring to the evidence that you've ever questioned your own beliefs and changed them as a result.

How many excuses can you find for Trump's fraud?

I already stated that I'm not a fan of Trump and that he's made mistakes (much more important ones than financial scheming with his company).

First it's the A/C vents, then it's subjectivity of real estate valuations. Then it's the uniqueness of his (extraordinarily tacky) apartment. You just jump from one lousy rationalization to the next as you consistently get shown why they're all crap.

After reviewing more info I already said he clearly overstated the size. No one has shown anything proving the dollar/sq ft estimates were off. None of you have any idea what finish materials, fixtures, and other amenities are present in his (IMO tacky) NY place. And then there's the subjective nature of all real estate valuation.

At what point do you actually open your eyes & say, "This doesn't look good?"

I wish every day that Trump would be more circumspect about his actions and words, but that isn't who he is. It's one of his flaws as I've said before.

Have you once done as john12ax7 suggested & flip the script. Would you be cool with this if it was Bill Clinton, or AOC, or George Soros?

Yes, I have. And I can see the biased lawfare being waged as a result.

Again, I didn't want him to run in 2016. Didn't want him to be the GOP nominee, either. I voted against Hillary (someone I will never trust) and hoped for the best. He delivered much more than I expected despite unrelenting naked hatred from the media, the Democrats (who he helped finance for decades), and many in the GOP; as well as his own obvious personal flaws. I can't say the same for Obama, who twice received my vote (Palin was a no-go for me as was smarmy weak sauce Romney).

I don't really think so.

Whatever.

Beyond the issue that you're theorizing about my state of mind based on what little you read here, I actually have written here before about doubting your fundamental beliefs, and about looking at the arguments of the folks you disagree with.

I'm not seeing you walk your talk. Have you ever voted for a conservative (not a moderate) for a major office (POTUS, Congress, etc.)?

Radically altering your beliefs does not necessarily mean your self-examination led to greater wisdom, and not radically altering your beliefs does not mean you failed to question them.

In the face of all that has happened in the last decade, you remain attached to the people who continue to undermine the Constitution and foundational values that made this country great. That's all I need to know to see that you haven't grokked reality yet.

Sometimes folks question their beliefs and find their faith strengthened.

And sometimes they can't escape their groupthink rut.

Sometimes the changes are subtle and gradual.

That's what happened with me and with a lot of other people I know.

And honestly, if the questions you asked yourself are as weak as the questions you ask here, I'm not so confident I'd have much regard for your answers.

So you're aware of all of my internal dialogue over the past couple of decades. Neat. Can you send me a PDF of that?

I don't see any evidence that you've questioned the obvious changes that have occurred in the party you apparently support. It seems more like you are one of the folks pushing it that way.

And I will not vote for a shadow executive branch fronted by a dementia-riddled puppet. Elder abuse is sick. The lesser of two bad choices is apparent.

 

[jabe]

I hear that AOC doesn't think RICO is a crime.

That's nothing, wait 'til you hear about this guy in the Brewery who doesn't think RICO is a category of crime.

 

[boji]

Citizen 1: The team politics blinders people have are quite staggering.
Citizen 2: Amen.

not necessarily [true] self-examination lead(s) to greater wisdom

That's all I need to know to see

I'll take, "What is a socially reinforced, defended blind spot?" for $100, Alex.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

That's nothing, wait 'til you hear about this guy in the Brewery who doesn't think RICO is a category of crime.

And there are the guys in The Brewery who can't distinguish between a speech impediment and serious dementia.

 

[BigPauly]

I need to meet your yoga instructor, because you bend over so far backwards trying to defend Trump that you could be in the damn circus. Why? Why do you love this man so much that you're willing to forgive even his most egregious and obvious misdeeds? To the part of the world that is still rational, you sound like a fool. You're not stupid, but why do you feel compelled to make yourself look stupid by saying such ridiculous things in defense of Trump?

I am quite rational, and I’ll vote for Trump. Only folks that look stupid are ones that vote to undermine their own safety and security. Sure, Trumps probably not an angel, but the current administration certainly is undermining our safety and security. Then there’s the dementia thing. I certainly don’t want a leader with dementia that has nuclear codes. ALL Americans, left or right are being screwed hard by this administration, the whole world can see it. I say view both candidates through the same lens, then pass judgement equally if you can.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

I'll take, "What is a socially reinforced, defended blind spot?" for $100, Alex.

Would be curious to know how the snippet of my post constitutes a "socially reinforced, defended blind spot." Who socially reinforced what I stated? I came to that conclusion while I was nominally part of the very thing I criticize. I was attacked by long time friends and colleagues when I challenged their world view, one they assumed I (still) shared even after I recognized that the emperor had no clothes. How is it a "blind spot" when Ive essentially been on both sides of the fence and seen the grass that grows there?

 

[jabe]

I'll take "Arguing With Yourself" for $400.

 

[crazydoc]

And there are the guys in The Brewery who can't distinguish between a speech impediment and serious dementia.

Dunning-Kruger strikes with a vengeance.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

View attachment 125084
View attachment 125085

I'll take "Arguing With Yourself" for $400.

I can like that boji is pointing out interesting things without necessarily agreeing with it all. My response to him was an honest question. Is that hard to understand?

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Dunning-Kruger strikes with a vengeance.

I take it you're in the speech impediment camp, then. Good to know.

 

[Matador]

Then there’s the dementia thing. I certainly don’t want a leader with dementia that has nuclear codes

But someone with an axe to grind, and a host of grievances to settle is better?

We really gotta side with the insurrectionists because the other guy stutters?

“I know them both very well and we will restore peace through strength. Get that war settled. It’s a bad war. And Putin has so little respect for Obama that he’s starting to throw around the nuclear word,” Trump said during a speech in Greensboro, North Carolina.

Other glitches included mistaking a poll for a legislative bill, calling the country the “United Stage” and a “nation that’s no longer respectered,”. “Diiiiing, boom. This is me, [unintelligible] bing!”. He insisted that immigrants crossing the U.S.-Mexico border “don’t speak languages,” and described his plan for America’s missile defense system by going, “Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.… Boom. OK. Missile launch. Woosh. Boom.”

 

[Tubetec]

There keeping you lot busy arguing with each other so you cant even see theres a genocide taking place with America funding the Israelis ,

Does Trump have a peace plan for the middle east or is it another cold war he wants with his friend Putin ?

Biden is funding it , right now , despite growing calls for it to stop from all corners of the planet ,

Wasnt that prick Spicer fired by Trump ?

 

[john12ax7]

I am quite rational, and I’ll vote for Trump.

I certainly don’t want a leader with dementia that has nuclear codes.

These two statements are not logically consistent.

 

[hodad]

Have you ever voted for a conservative (not a moderate) for a major office (POTUS, Congress, etc.)?

I voted for McCain in the 2000 primary, but that was after the racist South Carolina whisper campaign that basically doomed his campaign.

Oh, and I voted for Zell Miller, which I believe counts as voting for a Republican.

I'm not seeing you walk your talk.

I don't think voting for a conservative really has anything to do with challenging one's core beliefs or entertaining doubt.

*** I do wonder why Rs go so very far in rationalizing Trump's actions. His track record for decades illustrates clearly that he's a con artist. The litany of lawsuits from before he ever got to the White House--and the many payouts he's had to make--attest to it as well. And yet when he triples the size of his apartment, and states that the value is grossly higher than every apartment in the same building, and pretty much every apartment in the entire city, he's not pulling a con? Whether or not any of the cases against him are lawfare, the dude did all this bad stuff. Nobody's making up charges against Trump.

If he wanted to avoid the Florida case, he could have not lied in a sworn statement, and he could have returned the documents rather than hiding them.

If he wanted not to be charged with RICO in Georgia, he could have not asked the Gov & SOS to "find" 12K votes. Remember, the officials who went public were Trump-supporting Republicans; they just had no interest in going to jail for committing the election fraud that would have been required to "find" those 12K votes.

If he didn't want Tish James to come after him, he shouldn't have told whoppers--not just ordinary lies, but giant lies--about the value of his properties.

He is a criminal. He is being put on trial for his crimes. Boo freaking hoo. Happens to people every day.

 

[john12ax7]

There keeping you lot busy arguing with each other

As evidenced by this forum, us vs them team politics is very effective.

 

[crazydoc]

I take it you're in the speech impediment camp, then. Good to know.

Of course, Until you can show your complete dementia workup of your patient, Mr. Biden, diagnosing his "serious dementia," I'll just keep believing that your opinions are generally worthless.

A comprehensive work-up for dementia includes a thorough history, with reports from informants as well as the patient, a mental status evaluation, and physical, neurological, and neuropsychological examinations.7 Neuroimaging and specific laboratory tests are recommended, depending upon findings from the history and physical examination.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181713/

 

[AnalogPackrat]

But someone with an axe to grind, and a host of grievances to settle is better?

Gee, let's see. Plenty of people made him their enemy for four years and he didn't nuke them. But Biden rants from the teleprompter about MAGA extremists and sends the FBI against concerned parents...

We really gotta side with the insurrectionists because the other guy stutters?

So all 74M Trump voters are insurrectionists? And you still believe Joe is just stuttering. Amazing.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

These two statements are not logically consistent.

In your opinion. It's a real choice with real consequences. Who is better off in 2021-24 compared to 2017-20?

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Of course, Until you can show your complete dementia workup of your patient, Mr. Biden, diagnosing his "serious dementia," I'll just keep believing that your opinions are generally worthless.

A comprehensive work-up for dementia includes a thorough history, with reports from informants as well as the patient, a mental status evaluation, and physical, neurological, and neuropsychological examinations.7 Neuroimaging and specific laboratory tests are recommended, depending upon findings from the history and physical examination.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181713/

Or you could apply your experience with other dementia patients and compare observations of their symptoms with Joe Biden. Stiff gait, poor balance, confused about time, confused about place, frequently forgets names, has trouble reading, has trouble speaking (much worse than 10+ years ago), needs constant direction to get through the day, forgets recent events. I could go on.

If he was only stuttering, why is he so protected from any real press briefing or extended open form interaction with the public? Denial of reality must be debilitating for you.

 

[JohnRoberts]

There keeping you lot busy arguing with each other so you cant even see theres a genocide taking place with America funding the Israelis ,

Thanks for offering to advise us about the ME.

Seriously if the Israelis were practicing genocide, they would have wiped out Hamas in under 2 weeks. Instead they are bending over backwards to avoid killing innocent Palestinians but that is difficult when Hamas uses the population as human shields by hiding inside/under schools, hospitals, and even under UN offices.

The latest plan from Netanyahu is to reconstitute a modern Palestinian leadership without ties to Hamas. I am not as optimistic as he is, because groups like Hamas tend to assassinate high profile leaders who try to stand up in opposition to Hamas. But good luck with that. They deserve peace without the vicious Hamas in charge.

Does Trump have a peace plan for the middle east or is it another cold war he wants with his friend Putin ?

He already pioneered the Abraham accord that was building bridges between Israel and neighbors in the region. Iran of course was/is threatened by this so pushed Hamas to upset the apple cart.

Trump's plan for dealing with Putin (and Iraq) was to drive down international oil prices so Russia and Iraq, would not have the revenue from oil sales for all their military mischief. I believe it would work, but now both Russia and Iraq are selling lots of oil to China and India, and wherever.

Biden is funding it , right now , despite growing calls for it to stop from all corners of the planet ,

The war machine never runs out of support... . We need to starve Putin's war machine... Right now the west is running out of our own ammunition because Ukraine is getting so much of it.

Wasnt that prick Spicer fired by Trump ?

Who? (Rhetorical, please don't tell me.)

JR