The Vaccine

[crazydoc]

I think we may be headed in a better direction now--time will tell.

I think vaccination rates are increasing mainly because some people are finally getting scared. Good!

 

[JohnRoberts]

I still can't read minds but the fear campaign has been going on for a long time (covid fear porn).

Self interest should be enough to encourage vaccination but IMO the government has done a piss poor job selling the benefit of vaccination.

More recently proof of vaccine (probably should be proof of immunity?) mandates are being encouraged for private businesses and now NYC is mandating proof of vaccine to enter gyms and indoor dining.

JR

PS; I just noticed yesterday that there is a free covid vaccine sign in front of my local health clinic. I'll ask the doctor about that next month when my annual check up comes around. IMO she should have done a mailing to all her clinic patients a few months ago. Who would have more influence than personal doctors.

 

[crazydoc]

I still can't read minds but the fear campaign has been going on for a long time (covid fear porn).

But now the unvaccinated fear is just ramping up, along with the new surge - "98% of hospitalizations and death are the unvaccinated." Whether the numbers are correct or not, I think it's scaring those who were waiting on the fence.

 

[crazydoc]

But now the unvaccinated fear is just ramping up, along with the new surge - "98% of hospitalizations and death are the unvaccinated." Whether the numbers are correct or not, I think it's scaring those who were waiting on the fence.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/f...id-19-complications/ar-AAN2dVp?ocid=bingcovid

"COVID took one of my best friends! RIP Dick Farrel. He is the reason I took the shot. He texted me and told me to 'Get it!' He told me this virus is no joke and he said, "I wish I had gotten it!" said close friend Amy Leigh Hair on her Facebook page.

"I was one of one the people like him who didn't trust the vaccine. I trusted my immune system. I just became more afraid of getting COVID-19 than I was of any possible side effects of the vaccine. I'm glad I got vaccinated," Hair told WPTV.

QED

 

[scott2000]

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/three-us-airlines-no-vaccine-mandate-workers/index.html

 

[JohnRoberts]

some of this may be strategic to poach workers from other airlines.

JR

PS: I expect more company mandated vaccinations after they finally give the vaccines full FDA approval, expected pretty soon. Unclear why they are dragging their feet, but this adds to the uncertainty among unvacced.

 

[crazydoc]

Unclear why they are dragging their feet, but this adds to the uncertainty among unvacced.

"When we were reviewing applications back when they were on paper, there was so much it would not fit on the freight elevator. That's how big the application is. You have lots of data to review," said Norman Baylor, who used to run the FDA's Office of Vaccines Research and Review and been through this process several times. He's the current CEO of Biologics Consulting.

“Any vaccine approval without completion of the high-quality review and evaluation that Americans expect the agency to perform would undermine the F.D.A.’s statutory responsibilities, affect public trust in the agency and do little to help combat vaccine hesitancy,” FDA’s Peter Marks wrote in The New York Times in response to Topol’s plea for speed.

In simple terms, there is a shitload of data and work for approval, and it takes time. Any shortcuts would feed into the claims that "I don't trust the government."

 

[JohnRoberts]

Funny, I don't trust the government, but I got my two jabs because I considered it a reasonable gamble based on risk/reward analysis.

Full FDA approval at least for some vaccines is expected within weeks (next month).

JR

PS; I didn't buy it for a short term trade but the Pfizer stock price has been getting jumpy lately on expectations. The classic stock market advice is to buy the rumor and sell the news so "news" is imminent.

 

[crazydoc]

Funny, I don't trust the government, but I got my two jabs because I considered it a reasonable gamble based on risk/reward analysis.

I guess you don't suffer from the degree of analytical impotence that most of the untrusting vaccine refusers do.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I guess you don't suffer from the degree of analytical impotence that most of the untrusting vaccine refusers do.

There are some batsh_t crazy conspiracy theories going around and probably some batsh_t crazy truths too.

There is a place for gain of function research in science but it should not be done casually. It is odd (or not) how "truth" ebbs and flows with popular sentiment, often driven by mass media. The virus origin was one of those truths that flopped around as people in high places do damage control.

At my age I am less worried about long term side effects from vaccine, more worried about the actual Covid.

I find it hard to believe that we are somehow unprepared now after a year and a half dealing with this pandemic. But I do believe that some people profit from stirring up fear and division.

JR

PS: another observation is how many "experts" we have offering conflicting opinions. There are close to a quarter million practicing physicians in the US, each with "expert" opinions. It is easy to find almost any opinion you want. While their profession affords them some applicable training, we need to understand that difficult questions are rarely simple and binary.

 

[crazydoc]

Yes, you can find any opinion you want, and even fudged data and analysis - the trick is using some common sense and experience to assign levels of credence to them.

Here's and interesting article. How can you not give it high credence when two of the authors are named Larry Brilliant and Rick Bright?

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/united-states/2021-06-08/coronavirus-strategy-forever-virus

 

[Tubetec]

https://www.independent.ie/world-ne...e-effects-of-mrna-covidvaccines-40741910.html
If it turns out there are serious issues with these vaccines in the longer term , politicians , the medical profession and others pushing vaccination should be ready to sharpen the short sword and do the honorable thing ,metphorically speaking .

 

[crazydoc]

https://www.independent.ie/world-ne...e-effects-of-mrna-covidvaccines-40741910.html
If it turns out there are serious issues with these vaccines in the longer term , politicians , the medical profession and others pushing vaccination should be ready to sharpen the short sword and do the honorable thing ,metphorically speaking .

Absolutely.

But the conditions listed are associated with many different potential causes (in particular erythema multiforme has very unclear etiologies), so it will take lots of data and time to see if there is any association between the vaccines and the conditions. The choice at this point is the much greater probability of a bad outcome from the disease itself, as opposed to a probably very rare (and usually treatable) condition somewhere down the road linked to the vaccines.

 

[cyrano]

There's no end to insanity...

https://nypost.com/2021/08/11/anti-vax-nurse-gave-8600-people-saline-not-covid-vaccine-police/

 

[JohnRoberts]

There's no end to insanity...

I'm afraid not, but to pull on that string... A surprising number of health care workers are not vaccinated (I've read as many as 25%). Are they smarter than everybody else, or dumber? Some hospitals have fired workers for refusing to get vaccinated without a valid excuse.

JR

 

[Script]

Here's what we get as info in Japan on delta and effectiveness of vaccines. Not a word on Moderna but comparable to Pfizer I'd think.

https://www.nhk.or.jp/shutoken/newsup/20210813b.html(Following is Google trans)

[...] a Canadian group analyzed 200,000 patients with the new corona, and found that [with] the "Delta strain" [it] is 2.2 times more likely to be hospitalized and 3.87 times more likely to require an ICU than conventional viruses. The risk of dying was 2.37 times higher.

[...] a study by a Chinese group found that people infected with the "Delta strain" had 1200 times more virus in their bodies than conventional viruses, which is related to the strength of infectivity.

The effects of preventing the onset are as follows, according to the content of a paper published in the "New England Journal of Medicine" by the British health authorities in July 2021.

"Alpha Strain"　
Pfizer 93.7%
AstraZeneca 74.5%
"Delta Strain"　　
Pfizer 88.0%
AstraZeneca 67.0%

According to the British government, the effects of hospitalization prevention are as follows.
"Delta Stock"
Pfizer 96%
AstraZeneca 92%

This should be overall encouraging. And I do trust the British government on this, cos the UK has one of the world's best developed monitoring systems, sequencing infrastructure and data analysis in this ongoing shit show.

 

[JohnRoberts]

If you don't trust British government why trust Chinese "group"(?).

Yes I remain optimistic, and encourage vaccination.

JR

 

[Script]

Iceland may be a good case in point. Very small population, highest vaccination rate worldwide, an island.

[Note: This article is explicitly not for anti-vaxxers and vaccine sceptics.]

Evidence shows that the vaccines used in Iceland protect about 60 per cent of those fully vaccinated against any kind of infection caused by the Delta variant of the virus and over 90 per cent against serious illnesses

Still, restrictive measures are back in place for now (i.e. mask wearing, distancing and limitations on number of people at gatherings and in public indoor places), as situation in hospitals gets difficult again with delta.

https://www.news.com.au/world/coron...s/news-story/b970a814615715e573d67b3a1c1525f0

 

[rob_gould]

And I do trust the British government on this, cos the UK has one of the world's best developed monitoring systems, sequencing infrastructure and data analysis in this ongoing shit show.

It's probably fair to say that the UK has this infrastructure despite its government, not because of it.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Covid vaccine finally fully approved by FDA (still no FDA commissioner appointed).

This eliminates one more excuse against getting vaccinated.

JR