tube and low B+

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mik

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Gentelmen, I've casually found the documentation about the possibility to work with tube at low B+
it is a patent of the 2004 call " TUBE INPUT JFET OUTPUT ( TIJO) ZERO FEEDBACK AUDIO AMPLIFIER"

patent No US 6737915B.


it is possible to use this topology for building a Mic pre ?

thanx.

M.
 
> it is possible to use this topology for building a Mic pre?

Sure.

You can also build an automobile with a lawn-mower engine, pull a plow with a small dog, etc.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=v98RAAAAEBAJ&dq=6737915
 
thank you for the commente gentelmen, the right question should be:

how it will perform, because in the doc PRR posted ( that I own ) isn't clear how linear this topology is, they talk about distortion, maby this is a good way to build a distrortion box, and not a mic pre..

anyway I'll drow a schematic soon, so we have something to talk about.

thank you again.

M.
 
if you want distortion, it's the right mic pre topology :wink:
but i think you will have also a lot of noise due to the low B+.
i read on a tube data, subminiature tube for old radio receiver, that you can have lot of distortion with low B+ and not so much noise because tube are designed for low B+
i try to search this data
 
This is wrong on so many levels. I now fully believe that if you buy the patent guy lunch he'll give you a patent.
He even allowed for the perverted mis-wiring of an xlr3 as a stereo device (audiophile use, not pro).
BTW, I doubt this will make your ideal distortion device.
regards,
David Bock
 
what about this, I don't know if this value should work, but the russian 6N28b is degnided to work with 50V, didn't find mutch info anyway about.

I ve add a op amp to change output impedance.

M.

http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pos=-1236
 
[quote author="mik"]http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pos=-1236[/quote]
Sorry for nitpicking but as drawn the Hi-Z drives the secondary of the input-TX, not the rest of the circuit.

FWIW...
 
> isn't clear how linear this topology is

It is just a vacuum tube.

When well-designed, and peak signal voltage is about 20% of supply voltage, distortion is mostly 2nd, about 5% THD, declining roughly as fast as signal.

So for 30V supply, we can do about 6V peak or 4V RMS at 5% THD, 2V RMS at 2.5%, 1V RMS at 1.25%, more or less. It might be 2% at 1V RMS, and can be far worse, but not a lot better unless level is low and NFB is high.

So the patent's proposed plan gives about 1%THD per Volt of signal, which will put a good "shine" on most home hi-fi sounds. The 6Vpk max level is above the level of most home hi-fi interfaces so it won't go "spzzzzt". Many users won't really notice 1% 2nd harmonic.... but if they paid $999 for this magic toy, they can probably hear something happening.

> the russian 6N28b is degnided to work with 50V

ALL small tubes will work with low voltage.

12AX7 is especially good below 50V, except its gain is so high that very-small inputs will overload the output when powered with small supply.

6DJ8 is another good bet. 12AU7 is terrific too.

> what about this, I don't know if this value should work

It won't work for too many reasons to go into. Why is the input cap 100uFd? Why do you have a cathode follower in front of a JFET? Where is the bias on Q1? How much gain do you have between input and volume control, how small a signal will overload before it gets to a turn-down point?

Use a good transparent mike-amp with gain control. "Capture audio without injury." Then after it is safely stored on tape (disk), run it to something like that 30V tube amp to "injure" it to taste. It needs a gain/loss control in front so you can dial the amount of injury from "nicked" to "crushed flat".

What the patent is really about is a Product where the buyer can swap tubes without running into Safety Regulations. Proposed EEC regulations will require all traditional tube voltages to be "No User Service" sealed boxes. But 24V is generally considered "safe", and I guess they can either stretch that to 30V or build down to 24V for the final product. Now Aunt Matilda and her grandson can swap various tubes all day long looking for "The Sound". Sure the kid will sit on or eat the pretty bottles, but that's not an Electrical Reg problem.
 
I recall there used to be some tubes that would work with 12V plate voltage for auto radio purposes. I also read an article sometime ago about starved plate amplifiers. IIRC the gain of the tube would go up considerably by using a much lower than normal plate supply, but at the expense of headroom. If you want to build a fuzz box, it might be a good way to go.
 
well, as always you show me the light; the schematic #1 don not have eny sense, I think that the right way to experiment with this topology is to follow the indication of fig 1 of the patent.
and prototype/ test this one..

http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pos=-1238

in normal contition the an Hi Mu triode will give about 60db of gain, but i can't compute how it behave with 48V ( i'm just beguinner ) .

I will use the russian 6NP1 'cause I've got some spere here, is a cound of 12ax7 as you know..

anyway, the goal is not to obtain a "state of the art" linear device , but a tool to play with like a jock.

in some LOW-FI application, 5% of 2nd dist. should be good.. yes if the device is well-designed.. this is why I'm here too get advice for you.

M.
 
[quote author="mik"]in normal contition the an Hi Mu triode will give about 60db of gain, but i can't compute how it behave with 48V ( i'm just beguinner ) .[/quote]
No triode on its own will give 60dB of gain; that implies a mu of over 1000.

Ian
 

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