jeremynothman
Well-known member
A u87 is €1500 second hand
Voiceover Mic Choice
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JeffKall
Well-known member
The King of Trailer VO …Don LaFontaine … and virtually all of the legendary film trailer Voice Over announcers specifically requested and used the Sennheiser 416 shotgun microphone during my time in film promo work in LA during the 80’s and 90’s … after which time most of the successful VO announcers built their own in home VO booths and started using a variety of large diaphragm condenser microphones (variations of the venerable U87) …
Maybe @Wordsushi could weigh in with a suggestion or two …
Check out Mark’s “The Microphone Assassin” YouTube posts for other possible suggestions …
Happy hunting !!!
Maybe @Wordsushi could weigh in with a suggestion or two …
Check out Mark’s “The Microphone Assassin” YouTube posts for other possible suggestions …
Happy hunting !!!
Thanks Jeff! The Lauten Clarion has put my 87 and my 416 out to pasture. And I believe it's on sale for $999 through the end of the year. Plus, it does a really nice 87 imitation when you switch it to fig-8
untamedfrontier
Active member
I saw the script on that YT thumbnail and misread it to say "Authentically better than you are", which is still definitely accurate 
Gee, fellers, maybe I am off base or I missed the MEMO, or something ... but I thought the OP asked about BUDGET microphones for VO work. Fifteen Hundred Quid for a used U87 and $900 US for a Sennheiser shotgun mic, or $1600 US for the Neumann TLM 193, hardly strike me as "budget" options. Of course, nobody specified exactly what the budget IS, so, I suppose those might be considered "budget" options for SOME guys.
Considering the number of YouTube videos that compare Microphone X or Microphone Y to various Neumann models, and how close they sound (to my and other guys' ears), I figure there must be at least a few low cost microphones that cut the muster. Yes, I acknowledge some guys can hear loads of differences between high end and low end microphones ... and while I may be hounded out of the principality for saying so - I figure there are several low cost models that would get a guy into the game, PROVIDED he follows Mr. @totoxraymond 's advice and employ good microphone technique in a suitable venue (i.e., quiet room with little reverberation and ambient noise). There must be SOME low cost models that would suit the task.
For example, what about the Shure Beta series for $150 - $200, or the Shure Nexadyne or KSM8 Dualdyne for around $300 (obtained used for 2/3 that sum), or maybe the Shure Beta PGA27 or SM4 for $200, or SM137 for $190. OR ... how's about the Sennheiser MK-4 for a stiff, but maybe affordable, $400, or if you like shotgun style, Sennheiser MKE600 for around $300? Or AudioTechnica AT4040 or WarmAudio for just under $300? Just to name a few likely suspects.
I believe there is a large number of decent, reasonably priced models in that price range from several companies, including, but not limited to, AudioTechnica, BeyerDynamic, Shure, Sennheiser, and other brands that are "good enough" for a starter kit coupled with a good audio interface (the MOTU M2 for a mere $200 springs to mind) to get started) in a proper, quiet non-reverberating venue.
I suppose everyone, except for me, wants a Neumann U87 or that $900 Sennheiser shotgun model - but I do not, because I believe a large portion of VO work is rather mundane and produced on meager budgets. You might be surprised at what they used to do the job.
I know guys who worked for SONY corp. building Nashville recording studios, and I represented a number of advertising agencies in a middle to large market producing many local and regional radio and TV commercials, training and promotional videos, and other audio and video projects using rather low cost, regular guy - yet professional quality - equipment. Shoot, the former occupant of my own professional office suite used it as a voice over studio voicing commercials and training and promotional narratives for multiple ad agencies serving some of the nation's largest retailers as clients. And it was NOT a properly treated space, lacking all those foam squares on the walls or moving blanket tapestries so many advocate. It was just a well built structure with good blow-in insulation, plenty quiet for normal operations.
Shoot, Mr. @Wordsushi and many other pundits have a large inventory of YouTube reviews of many affordable microphones that could get a guy started in the trade - again with judicious selection of a high quality recording interface and a suitably quiet space. The OP's friend might begin with an affordable model, and later upgrade to a higher quality, higher cost model later, as he develops and expands his skill set , resume, and book of business.
I used to field test and beta test microphones for speech recognition software producers and retail vendors - and they always recommended some of the most expensive microphones, claiming they were "more accurate" - for example the $500 Sennheiser MD 431II. Yet the software engineers who coded the applications recommended a fifty cent electret capsule as most appropriate and plenty accurate, for example headsets using small, cheap Knowles capsules. (E.g., VXI TalkPro or AndreElectronics NC-181VM, or Plantronics .Audio 326 - all using cheap electret capsules.)
Considering the number of YouTube videos that compare Microphone X or Microphone Y to various Neumann models, and how close they sound (to my and other guys' ears), I figure there must be at least a few low cost microphones that cut the muster. Yes, I acknowledge some guys can hear loads of differences between high end and low end microphones ... and while I may be hounded out of the principality for saying so - I figure there are several low cost models that would get a guy into the game, PROVIDED he follows Mr. @totoxraymond 's advice and employ good microphone technique in a suitable venue (i.e., quiet room with little reverberation and ambient noise). There must be SOME low cost models that would suit the task.
For example, what about the Shure Beta series for $150 - $200, or the Shure Nexadyne or KSM8 Dualdyne for around $300 (obtained used for 2/3 that sum), or maybe the Shure Beta PGA27 or SM4 for $200, or SM137 for $190. OR ... how's about the Sennheiser MK-4 for a stiff, but maybe affordable, $400, or if you like shotgun style, Sennheiser MKE600 for around $300? Or AudioTechnica AT4040 or WarmAudio for just under $300? Just to name a few likely suspects.
I believe there is a large number of decent, reasonably priced models in that price range from several companies, including, but not limited to, AudioTechnica, BeyerDynamic, Shure, Sennheiser, and other brands that are "good enough" for a starter kit coupled with a good audio interface (the MOTU M2 for a mere $200 springs to mind) to get started) in a proper, quiet non-reverberating venue.
Not everyone needs the same equipment used in Disney Studios's animation voice over department.
I suppose everyone, except for me, wants a Neumann U87 or that $900 Sennheiser shotgun model - but I do not, because I believe a large portion of VO work is rather mundane and produced on meager budgets. You might be surprised at what they used to do the job.
I know guys who worked for SONY corp. building Nashville recording studios, and I represented a number of advertising agencies in a middle to large market producing many local and regional radio and TV commercials, training and promotional videos, and other audio and video projects using rather low cost, regular guy - yet professional quality - equipment. Shoot, the former occupant of my own professional office suite used it as a voice over studio voicing commercials and training and promotional narratives for multiple ad agencies serving some of the nation's largest retailers as clients. And it was NOT a properly treated space, lacking all those foam squares on the walls or moving blanket tapestries so many advocate. It was just a well built structure with good blow-in insulation, plenty quiet for normal operations.
Notice, I am NOT suggesting more expensive gear is not better. I merely suggest a guy could get started in VO work with a more affordable kit than has heretofore been suggested.
Shoot, Mr. @Wordsushi and many other pundits have a large inventory of YouTube reviews of many affordable microphones that could get a guy started in the trade - again with judicious selection of a high quality recording interface and a suitably quiet space. The OP's friend might begin with an affordable model, and later upgrade to a higher quality, higher cost model later, as he develops and expands his skill set , resume, and book of business.
I used to field test and beta test microphones for speech recognition software producers and retail vendors - and they always recommended some of the most expensive microphones, claiming they were "more accurate" - for example the $500 Sennheiser MD 431II. Yet the software engineers who coded the applications recommended a fifty cent electret capsule as most appropriate and plenty accurate, for example headsets using small, cheap Knowles capsules. (E.g., VXI TalkPro or AndreElectronics NC-181VM, or Plantronics .Audio 326 - all using cheap electret capsules.)
Point is, one does not always need the most expensive, awesome, coveted microphone to get the job done - it just has to be good enough. Are there no truly "budget" options the guy could use to get started?
N'est ce pas? Or am I way off base? Happy trails, y'all. Jamesk brown
Well-known member
As already mentioned, the AKG with the @kingkorg capacitor mod is pretty hard to beat for the money, for anything one would use an LDC for:
https://groupdiy.com/threads/akg-perception-p220-to-neumann-u87-5-min-mod-p200-p100-p400-p420.67473/
This one's worth serious consideration as well:
https://groupdiy.com/threads/akg-c3000b-5-min-mod-awesome-mic.67911/
https://groupdiy.com/threads/akg-perception-p220-to-neumann-u87-5-min-mod-p200-p100-p400-p420.67473/
This one's worth serious consideration as well:
https://groupdiy.com/threads/akg-c3000b-5-min-mod-awesome-mic.67911/
john12ax7
Well-known member
I appreciate all the suggestions, both high and low end, it gives a good overall picture and a future upgrade path.
But yes for my friend the current starting budget is more limited. The room acoustics is also a concern. In my experience recording vocals (singing), I've had more success with dynamics in these less than ideal situations.
But yes for my friend the current starting budget is more limited. The room acoustics is also a concern. In my experience recording vocals (singing), I've had more success with dynamics in these less than ideal situations.
john12ax7
Well-known member
The Clarion sounds rather nice. While browsing the videos stumbled across the LS-208, seems that one could be a good choice for a less than ideal room?
YES. I believe a really good dynamic microphone can work well for the target application.
Close-talked (but not too close) they tend to ignore or "reject" (I never liked that descriptor) ambient noise. This is why I prefer a dynamic microphone in noisy situations, such as an amateur radio station where cooling fans, marauding grandkids, and the wife shouting orders from a 3 year old "To Do" list can wreak havoc on the air, not to mention terminate a good session altogether!
The Late Bob Heil of HEIL SOUND, Inc., one of the only non-musicians with a display in the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame, recommended dynamic microphones for this, stage, and other noisy situations. Picking up a more narrow range of frequencies also helps, I think. Parenthetically, I am partial to Sennheiser Evolution Series dynamic models. James
john12ax7
Well-known member
I like them too. I've had the e935 beat out much more expensive mics in some situations. Well worth the price.
GeorgeToledo
Well-known member
- Joined
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micmaven - You keep emphasizing the “BUDGET” aspect and talking down people’s responses, but the original post also said “industry standard”.
The responses here seem totally on point given the original post. Are there cheaper industry standard options that haven’t been mentioned that you know of? Please do tell.
A Studio Projects C1 or B1 might get the job done but it isn’t exactly “industry standard”, for example.
I think the suggestion of an RE20 is not a bad one, as far as matching all of the criteria in the original post goes. You can also tend to find them for a bit of a reduced price from Proaudiostar or Alto, if you look for “mint condition” or b-stock. They will be perfect, just sitting around in the warehouse long enough for them to sell it that way.
The responses here seem totally on point given the original post. Are there cheaper industry standard options that haven’t been mentioned that you know of? Please do tell.
A Studio Projects C1 or B1 might get the job done but it isn’t exactly “industry standard”, for example.
I think the suggestion of an RE20 is not a bad one, as far as matching all of the criteria in the original post goes. You can also tend to find them for a bit of a reduced price from Proaudiostar or Alto, if you look for “mint condition” or b-stock. They will be perfect, just sitting around in the warehouse long enough for them to sell it that way.
That is my personal favorite for my voice!
VO is a very narrow frequency range and far less demanding of microphones than singing.
I'm going fully heretical and suggest for Home Studio voiceover, you go with a small OMNIDIRECTIONAL electret mike.
This has many odvantages over a $$$ LD, cardioid or shotgun.
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So easy to do that you should knock one up from your spare parts bin and use it while you save up for your U87 bla bla
This has many odvantages over a $$$ LD, cardioid or shotgun.
- It is VERY resistant to wind / pop / handling noise.
- Insensitive to distance for novice VO exponents
- MUCH flatter response than any vocal handheld
- This is specially important when you are recording in a domestic room with limited acoustic treatment. Most recordings in domestic surrounding sound bad, not because the environment is bad, but because bad vocal mikes are used.
You have to join
So easy to do that you should knock one up from your spare parts bin and use it while you save up for your U87 bla bla
Brian Roth
Well-known member
Somewhat OT, but 20+ years ago I was tasked with building a podcast studio in an era where "podcasting" was a novelty and wasn't even a term! The Big Man In Charge dictated I use a SM-7 because it "Looked Like a Radio Mic" for the video! There weren't many choices for the mic boom back then, but IIRC it cost a significant fraction of the price of the mic itself. Looking online, maybe an O.C. White?
Anyway....about every podcast I see these days uses a SM-7 (or a clone?).
End of OT......
Bri
Anyway....about every podcast I see these days uses a SM-7 (or a clone?).
End of OT......
Bri
k brown
Well-known member
These podcasts with big salami mics (SM7, various German LDC knockoffs) crack me up because most of them are so high-pass filtered they may as well be using a lav.
JeffKall
Well-known member
Thanks, Mark!
I knew you would have a great suggestion based on your diverse personal experience !
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Emil C
Member
As a VO budget solution in a less-than-ideal acoustically treated space I would choose a supercardioid dynamic like Superlux TOP258 (Samson Q8x seems to have identical specs). It has a pronounced proximity effect so maybe playing with distance could help in animation work.
A U87 is sort of the standard, and it IS a budget mic.
I recently watched a documentary and one scene took place in the podcast “studio” for the New Yorker Radio Hour - a show radio show and podcast with like >100k+ weekly listeners. Their VO mics were either Senn e835 or Heil PR37. The show always sounds great. They record into a MixPre3. The whole setup cost less than an 87AI (can we make that a standardized cost unit?).
Recently I’ve been using a Sony C80 for a lot of VO- maybe not budget, but under $500. It’s small and provides a pad and bass roll off- and the clients like the Sony badge (which sometimes matters). I previously had Audio Technical 5040 and 5047s, which sounded great (they were given to our studio) but many clients didn’t like to use Audio Technical because they know of them as a budget brand - whatever. My job is to please the client, so they get what they want (and pay for).
The other consideration is “Dress for the job you want,” where premium equipment may attract higher rates.
Recently I’ve been using a Sony C80 for a lot of VO- maybe not budget, but under $500. It’s small and provides a pad and bass roll off- and the clients like the Sony badge (which sometimes matters). I previously had Audio Technical 5040 and 5047s, which sounded great (they were given to our studio) but many clients didn’t like to use Audio Technical because they know of them as a budget brand - whatever. My job is to please the client, so they get what they want (and pay for).
The other consideration is “Dress for the job you want,” where premium equipment may attract higher rates.
If they don't wanna drop $3600 on a new U87, Gefell UMT 70 can be found half the price or sometimes less (esp used) and get similar results. If they don't care about polar pattern, the cardioid 71 model is even cheaper (here's one for $1k right now). Vintage models are still sub $2k -- the UM70 capsule on the MV692 body might be my favorite solid state LDC, especially on vocal. Spot has officially blown up on those, though.
Soyuz 1973 is a good one too, only $799 USD and performs just as well as something that would be significantly more expensive. Has really become one of my fav mics of all time after using them for the past few years on just about everything. We have three of them now.
Soyuz slightly higher end options are still quite affordable in the grand scheme of things, as well.
Soyuz 1973 is a good one too, only $799 USD and performs just as well as something that would be significantly more expensive. Has really become one of my fav mics of all time after using them for the past few years on just about everything. We have three of them now.
Soyuz slightly higher end options are still quite affordable in the grand scheme of things, as well.
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