Any mic placed right at a boundary becomes a pressure zone mic. I’ve had success with many mics used this way from drum room mics to conference room recordings. I’ve used sdc omnis, cardioids, and even ldc like 414 for this. For drum room, I often tape a pair of spaced mics to the floor a meter or two I. Front of the kit. I clean the floor first and put a chair or mic stand to protect the mic from stumbling musicians. They capture a really well-balanced room sound.
Piano mics on a budget
- Thread starter kags
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A lot of great replies here!
The short stick will be used for practical reasons, more than Sonics, which we may live to regret, but we are recording in a home.
I’m gonna audition a few options while I try to obtain a few other mics. It may take a week or two, but I’ll try to post some audio here, after my tests.
On the test:
a pair of Miketek C5s with card and Omni capsules - beyond our budget but I have em already.
Ashman SOM50 pair - sdc with a spherical nose, based loosely on M50- no longer made but very useful mics that I already own
Rode M2 because I have em around.
Modded MXL 603 (electronic mod, not the cut-down mod). I have Omni and card capsules
Sony c80 pair. - beyond the budget, but I have em.
I’ll order some Lines, but it may take a while to get them.
I can also borrow an Earthworks piano kit, I think. I haven’t really liked it in the past, but this is a different piano.
I like k brown and kingkong’s Takstar suggestion, but I prob won’t have time to get to it for this test, but I’ll try.
Thanks for all the input and I’ll try to post audio examples in a few weeks or sooner.
The short stick will be used for practical reasons, more than Sonics, which we may live to regret, but we are recording in a home.
I’m gonna audition a few options while I try to obtain a few other mics. It may take a week or two, but I’ll try to post some audio here, after my tests.
On the test:
a pair of Miketek C5s with card and Omni capsules - beyond our budget but I have em already.
Ashman SOM50 pair - sdc with a spherical nose, based loosely on M50- no longer made but very useful mics that I already own
Rode M2 because I have em around.
Modded MXL 603 (electronic mod, not the cut-down mod). I have Omni and card capsules
Sony c80 pair. - beyond the budget, but I have em.
I’ll order some Lines, but it may take a while to get them.
I can also borrow an Earthworks piano kit, I think. I haven’t really liked it in the past, but this is a different piano.
I like k brown and kingkong’s Takstar suggestion, but I prob won’t have time to get to it for this test, but I’ll try.
Thanks for all the input and I’ll try to post audio examples in a few weeks or sooner.
Hmmm - I have a pair of mc740 but I’ve never used them on piano. Above my budget for this project but something to try! They’ve been used for lead vocals on some successful records- most notably CeCe Peniston “Finally”
jeremynothman
Well-known member
The 740 is a different beast (and known by some as a good vocal mic), but from my understanding the MC930 capsule was also used in the MC834 in a side-address format. I only suggested it because at least here in Germany, they often go cheap second hand (I literally saw a single MC930 go for 150euro this week, and I got a pair with all the accessories for 400euro two years back). I find them to be really great SDCs... maybe not quite as good as Schoeps MK4/MKH8040/DPA 4011, but they have a very smooth sound, both on and off axis.
Good luck with all the tests! And I guess half-stick makes sense not to overwhelm the room (although then maybe I'd ask if the piano should be in that room).
Barry Hufker
Well-known member
One could put the piano on full stick and place a thick blanket over it, as is sometimes done in studios…
A pair of Avantone CK-1's?
Less than $300.00 for a new pair.
I also have a pair of AKG 451b's, but dig the Avantones more allot of the time. More just a different vibe than better or worse, but I have them on my grand piano right now.
And they come with these little doodads that screw into the top that change the polar pattern if you want.
Less than $300.00 for a new pair.
I also have a pair of AKG 451b's, but dig the Avantones more allot of the time. More just a different vibe than better or worse, but I have them on my grand piano right now.
And they come with these little doodads that screw into the top that change the polar pattern if you want.
k brown
Well-known member
Same mic as the Takstar/Pronomic already mentioned.
Takstar CM-60 only $60 a pair on Amazon. The CM-63 (which have the same capsules, but with better (?) grilles, and much better RF filtering are $80 a pair.
They come only with cardioid capsules, but they can be made omni as mentioned before. At those prices, you could buy four and convert one pair to omni and leave the other card, and still be half the price.
Avantone made be doing some additional QC/culling, I don't know. I suppose the red paint and chrome plating costs more.
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TLK
Member
As I understand, Lineaudio no longer sells CM-4' and other of his products direct but only thru dealers now.. I could be wrong.
Plenty of suggestions here on what mics would be just fine on a modest budget. The folks in China got this market for low cost mics figured out..
Plenty of suggestions here on what mics would be just fine on a modest budget. The folks in China got this market for low cost mics figured out..
I'm willing to hear and appreciate better options on this. As I said - not really my area of expertise. But the OP seemed to be looking for longish term budget options. OP seems clued upon the best technical options. Boundary Mics can offer a good budget solution. The lid provides a large "boundary" to work with the PZM operation. fwiw I'd also put in some external / room mics if possible.
k brown
Well-known member
True they do not; it's just that link you provided was not to any of their European distributors, but to the LA site itself.
Their distributors are listed on this page:
http://www.lineaudio.se/contact.html
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k brown
Well-known member
It's worth mentioning that any mics based on the Primo EM272 are quite inferior to any using the EM273, because the 272 has the FET source internally tied to ground, rendering it impossible to bias it optimally.
Even mics based on the 3-terminal EM273 won't sound as good as the Line Audio CM4, as they do extensive culling and do modifications to the capsule itself that greatly increases it's performance. This has been verified by @kingkorg who has dug into them and found that no simple DIY mods can get the little Primos to sound as good as the CM4.
This is, of course, also true of the Line Audio CM4 which uses the Primo EM200.
There are a lot of possibilities of setting up the piano, but in this case the piano fits well in the room a specific way, the recordings will also be filmed, so looks matter a little, there will be one or two mics for singers or instruments in the same room, and most of all, the piano is covered with piles of hooks, notes, and scores that are also part of the project. We chose half-stick for all those reasons. Otherwise, I would prob remove the lid completely.
I will also investigate the Beyer SDCs. I have a pair of beautiful Mkh 800 and a pair of mkh80, but neither can be loaned for this long-term project.
I can't praise enough CM4. Especially having in mind the stock EM200 capsule is like the half the price of the whole mic.
Another bonus is that it actually sounds more like LDC than many LDCs. It's really hard to grasp until you hear one. I kept avoiding it for years, simply because i couldn't believe it. I still can't wrap my head around it even though i have dissected it many times.
The Avantone is worth a check. Those "doodads" are a good bonus - body and 3 capsules for 150 bucks. What's to lose?
k brown
Well-known member
Did you see post #27?
Yes, I saw #27. just acknowledging people’s contributions. The Avantone do come in a nice kit with three capsules and a fancy finish, so even though they are available as another branded product, the package might be worth it to some.
I’m also happy to convert the Takstar to Omni, but for those who aren’t, the Avamtone are ready to go…
BTW, k brown and kingkong - do you have a preference for the Takstar 60 vs 63? Besides the pad and body color, It looks like the capsules, or at least the vents, are different between the two mics. The 63 costs about 10 bucks more than the 60. This may have already been discussed, so I'll search that out, too...
EDIT : Found the post in this thread https://groupdiy.com/threads/takstar-cm-60-suggested-mods-improvements.84885/page-2#post-1157493 post number 29
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k brown
Well-known member
I have them both, and the '63 has a slightly smoother sound. The biggest plus is the improved RF protection provided by the more sophisticated output circuitry. Also, if you are really tech, have a scope, and know how to do it, the PCB has a trim pot for tweaking the bias for the FET. Some have received units with the bias fairly far off of optimum; don't know how common that is.
The '60s have a PCB spot for a trim pot, so it can be improved in that regard.
I ordered a pair of 63s and can tweak the bias
terry setter
Well-known member
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I am told that Elton John would sometimes record (not just play live) with two boundary mics (Crown PZM's) taped to the lid, above the hammers. I've done it and it's a very present sound that comes through in a mix. Plus, you get to close the lid and eliminate feedback issues. Behringer makes a boundary mic called the BA 19A. They list for $79. I happen to have purchased two of them yesterday for $29.99 on "TODAYS DEAL". Here's where I got them:
https://www.newsalestore.com/en/?s=BEHRINGER+MICROPHONES&post_type=product
I don't know yet if it's a ruse, but at the price it was worth a shot.
Also, they have some side address LDC's that look like they'd make reasonable donor mics for DIY projects.
https://www.newsalestore.com/en/?s=BEHRINGER+MICROPHONES&post_type=product
I don't know yet if it's a ruse, but at the price it was worth a shot.
Also, they have some side address LDC's that look like they'd make reasonable donor mics for DIY projects.
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Are you sure the Avantone CK-1 is the same mic as the CM-63? Comparing the switch locations and tapered tail, it looks more like an Alctron T02A to me, which is most likely nothing else but a Shuai Yin SYC90S. Alibaba link below. They have 22mm bodies, which fit the 3U capsules.
https://x.alibaba.com/Ax2Znj?ck=pdp
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